At one time the venerables Musīla, Saviṭṭha, Nārada, and Ānanda were staying near Kosambī in Ghosita’s monastery. Ekaṁ samayaṁ āyasmā ca musilo āyasmā ca paviṭṭho āyasmā ca nārado āyasmā ca ānando kosambiyaṁ viharanti ghositārāme. Then Venerable Saviṭṭha said to Venerable Musīla: Atha kho āyasmā paviṭṭho āyasmantaṁ musilaṁ etadavoca:

“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you know for yourself that “aññatreva, āvuso musila, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato musilassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: rebirth is a requirement for old age and death?” ‘jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇan’”ti?

“Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: rebirth is a requirement for old age and death.” ‘jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇan’”ti.

“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberateation, do you know for yourself that “Aññatreva, āvuso musila, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato musilassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: continued existence is a requirement for rebirth … ‘bhavapaccayā jātīti …pe… grasping is a requirement for continued existence … upādānapaccayā bhavoti … craving is a requirement for grasping … taṇhāpaccayā upādānanti … feeling is a requirement for craving … vedanāpaccayā taṇhāti … contact is a requirement for feeling … phassapaccayā vedanāti … the six sense fields are requirements for contact … saḷāyatanapaccayā phassoti … name and form are requirements for the six sense fields … nāmarūpapaccayā saḷāyatananti … consciousness is a requirement for name and form … viññāṇapaccayā nāmarūpanti … choices are a requirement for consciousness … saṅkhārapaccayā viññāṇanti … ignorance is a requirement for choices?” avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā’”ti?

“Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: ignorance is a requirement for choices.” ‘avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā’”ti.

“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you know for yourself that “Aññatreva, āvuso musila, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato musilassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: when rebirth ceases, old age and death cease?” ‘jātinirodhā jarāmaraṇanirodho’”ti?

“Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: when rebirth ceases, old age and death cease.” ‘jātinirodhā jarāmaraṇanirodho’”ti.

“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you know for yourself that “Aññatreva, āvuso musila, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato musilassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: when continued existence ceases, rebirth ceases … ‘bhavanirodhā jātinirodhoti …pe… when grasping ceases, continued existence ceases … upādānanirodhā bhavanirodhoti … when craving ceases, grasping ceases … taṇhānirodhā upādānanirodhoti … when feeling ceases, craving ceases … vedanānirodhā taṇhānirodhoti … when contact ceases, feeling ceases … phassanirodhā vedanānirodhoti … when the six sense fields cease, contact ceases … saḷāyatananirodhā phassanirodhoti … when name and form cease, the six sense fields cease … nāmarūpanirodhā saḷāyatananirodhoti … when consciousness ceases name and form cease … viññāṇanirodhā nāmarūpanirodhoti … when choices cease consciousness ceases … saṅkhāranirodhā viññāṇanirodhoti … when ignorance ceases, choices cease?” avijjānirodhā saṅkhāranirodho’”ti?

“Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: when ignorance ceases, choices cease.” ‘avijjānirodhā saṅkhāranirodho’”ti.

“Reverend Musīla, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you know for yourself that “Aññatreva, āvuso musila, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato musilassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment?” ‘bhavanirodho nibbānan’”ti?

“Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment.” ‘bhavanirodho nibbānan’”ti.

“Then Venerable Musīla is a perfected one, with defilements ended.” “Tenahāyasmā musilo arahaṁ khīṇāsavo”ti? When he said this, Musīla kept silent. Evaṁ vutte, āyasmā musilo tuṇhī ahosi.

Then Venerable Nārada said to Venerable Saviṭṭha, Atha kho āyasmā nārado āyasmantaṁ paviṭṭhaṁ etadavoca: “Reverend Saviṭṭha, please let me answer these questions. “sādhāvuso paviṭṭha, ahaṁ etaṁ pañhaṁ labheyyaṁ. Ask me Maṁ etaṁ pañhaṁ puccha. and I will answer them for you.” Ahaṁ te etaṁ pañhaṁ byākarissāmī”ti.

“By all means, Venerable Nārada, try these questions. “Labhatāyasmā nārado etaṁ pañhaṁ. I’ll ask you Pucchāmahaṁ āyasmantaṁ nāradaṁ etaṁ pañhaṁ. and you can answer them for me.” Byākarotu ca me āyasmā nārado etaṁ pañhaṁ.

(Saviṭṭha repeats exactly the same series of questions, and Nārada answers just as Musīla did.) Aññatreva, āvuso nārada, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato nāradassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: ‘jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇan’”ti? “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: ‘jātipaccayā jarāmaraṇan’”ti.

“Aññatreva, āvuso nārada, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato nāradassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ—bhavapaccayā jāti …pe… avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā”ti? “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: ‘avijjāpaccayā saṅkhārā’”ti.

“Aññatreva, āvuso nārada, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato nāradassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: ‘jātinirodhā jarāmaraṇanirodho’”ti? “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: ‘jātinirodhā jarāmaraṇanirodho’”ti.

“Aññatreva, āvuso nārada, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato nāradassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: ‘bhavanirodhā jātinirodhoti …pe… avijjānirodhā saṅkhāranirodho’”ti? “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: ‘avijjānirodhā saṅkhāranirodho’”ti.

“Reverend Nārada, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, do you know for yourself that “Aññatreva, āvuso nārada, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā atthāyasmato nāradassa paccattameva ñāṇaṁ: the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment?” ‘bhavanirodho nibbānan’”ti?

“Reverend Saviṭṭha, apart from faith, endorsement, oral transmission, reasoned train of thought, or acceptance of a view after deliberation, I know and see that “Aññatreva, āvuso paviṭṭha, saddhāya aññatra ruciyā aññatra anussavā aññatra ākāraparivitakkā aññatra diṭṭhinijjhānakkhantiyā ahametaṁ jānāmi ahametaṁ passāmi: the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment.” ‘bhavanirodho nibbānan’”ti.

“Then Venerable Nārada is a perfected one, with defilements ended.” “Tenahāyasmā nārado arahaṁ khīṇāsavo”ti?

“I have truly seen clearly with right wisdom that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment. Yet I am not a perfected one. “‘Bhavanirodho nibbānan’ti kho me, āvuso, yathābhūtaṁ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhaṁ, na camhi arahaṁ khīṇāsavo. Suppose there was a well on a desert road that had neither rope nor bucket. Seyyathāpi, āvuso, kantāramagge udapāno, tatra nevassa rajju na udakavārako. Then along comes a person struggling in the oppressive heat, weary, thirsty, and parched. Atha puriso āgaccheyya ghammābhitatto ghammapareto kilanto tasito pipāsito, so taṁ udapānaṁ olokeyya. They’d know that there was water, but they couldn’t physically touch it. Tassa ‘udakan’ti hi kho ñāṇaṁ assa, na ca kāyena phusitvā vihareyya.

In the same way, I have truly seen clearly with right wisdom that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment. Yet I am not a perfected one.” Evameva kho, āvuso, ‘bhavanirodho nibbānan’ti yathābhūtaṁ sammappaññāya sudiṭṭhaṁ, na camhi arahaṁ khīṇāsavo”ti.

When he said this, Venerable Ānanda said to Venerable Saviṭṭha, Evaṁ vutte, āyasmā ānando āyasmantaṁ paviṭṭhaṁ etadavoca: “Reverend Saviṭṭha, what do you have to say to Venerable Nārada when he speaks like this?” “evaṁvādī tvaṁ, āvuso paviṭṭha, āyasmantaṁ nāradaṁ kiṁ vadesī”ti?

“Reverend Ānanda, I have nothing to say to Venerable Nārada when he speaks like this, except what is good and wholesome.” “Evaṁvādāhaṁ, āvuso ānanda, āyasmantaṁ nāradaṁ na kiñci vadāmi aññatra kalyāṇā aññatra kusalā”ti.

Aṭṭhamaṁ.