Points of ControversyKathāvatthu
Points of ControversyMahāpaṇṇāsaka
2.2 Of the Knowledge of the ArahantDutiyavagga

Controverted Point: That the Arahant may lack knowledge.Aññāṇakathā

Controverted PointAtthi arahato aññāṇanti? Theravādin:You maintain that he does. Then you must also admit that the Arahant has ignorance—ignorance as flood, bond, latent bias, attack, fetter, hindrance. If you deny this, you cannot say he lacks knowledge.Āmantā. You would certainly admit lack of knowledge, ignorance as “flood”, etc., in the case of the average man.How can you assert the former and deny the latter in the case of the Arahant?Atthi arahato avijjā avijjogho avijjāyogo avijjānusayo avijjāpariyuṭṭhānaṁ avijjāsaṁyojanaṁ avijjānīvaraṇanti? You would deny that an Arahant from lack of knowledge would kill living things, take what is not given, speak lies, utter slander, speak harshly, indulge in idle talk, commit burglary, carry off plunder, be a highwayman, commit adultery, and destroy village or town; yet you would admit an average man might from lack of knowledge do such things.In fact you assert that an Arahant from lack of knowledge would pursue the opposite course from what an average man would do from lack of knowledge.Na hevaṁ vattabbe. You deny that an Arahant lacks knowledge in respect of the Teacher, the Doctrine, the Order, of the ethical training, of the beginning of time, the end of time, both beginning and end, and of things as happening by way of assignable causes. You deny that herein he lacks knowledge. Yet you maintain your proposition … .Natthi arahato avijjā avijjogho avijjāyogo avijjānusayo avijjāpariyuṭṭhānaṁ avijjāsaṁyojanaṁ avijjānīvaraṇanti? You admit that an average man who lacks knowledge lacks it in those respects, but that an Arahant who lacks knowledge does not lack it in those respects. Must you not also admit that an average man, lacking in knowledge, does not lack it in those respects?Āmantā. Can you maintain that the Arahant—one who has so put away passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, and indiscretion, that they are cut off at the root and made as the stump of a palm tree, incapable of rising again in future renewal, who has cultivated the means for putting away passions and all the other factors of enlightenment to that end, who has consummated as having done with lust, hate, and nescience, and to whom all the terms for the Arahant may be applied—that such an one lacks knowledge?Hañci natthi arahato avijjā avijjogho avijjāyogo avijjānusayo avijjāpariyuṭṭhānaṁ avijjāsaṁyojanaṁ avijjānīvaraṇaṁ, no ca vata re vattabbe—Or how can you maintain your proposition with regard to one class of Arahant only—to those who are proficient in their own field—and not to another class—to those who are proficient in other things?“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Did not the Exalted One say in the Suttanta:Atthi puthujjanassa aññāṇaṁ, atthi tassa avijjā avijjogho avijjāyogo avijjānusayo avijjāpariyuṭṭhānaṁ avijjāsaṁyojanaṁ avijjānīvaraṇanti? “In him who knows, Obhikkhus, who sees, do I declare the intoxicants to be extinct, not in him who knows not, neither sees. And what,bhikkhus, in him who knows, who sees, is the extinction of intoxicants? `Such is body, such its cause, so is its cessation; such are the four mental factors, such their cause, so is their cessation'—even this, Obhikkhus, is the extinguishing of intoxicants”?Āmantā. How then can the Arahantwho knows, who sees,lack knowledge?Atthi arahato aññāṇaṁ, atthi tassa avijjā avijjogho avijjāyogo avijjānusayo avijjāpariyuṭṭhānaṁ avijjāsaṁyojanaṁ avijjānīvaraṇanti? who knows, who sees,Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

Again, did not the Exalted One say in the Suttanta:Atthi arahato aññāṇaṁ, natthi tassa avijjā avijjogho avijjāyogo avijjānusayo avijjāpariyuṭṭhānaṁ avijjāsaṁyojanaṁ avijjānīvaraṇanti? “In him who knows, Obhikkhus, who sees, do I declare the intoxicants to be extinct, not in him who knows not, neither sees. And what,bhikkhus, in him who knows, who sees, is the extinguishing of intoxicants? `This is Ill!' herein,bhikkhus, for him who knows, who sees, is that extinguishing. `This is the cause of Ill … this is the cessation of Ill … this is the course leading to the cessation of Ill'—herein,bhikkhus, for him who knows, who sees, is the extinguishing of intoxicants”?Āmantā. How then can the Arahantwho knows, who sees,lack knowledge?Atthi puthujjanassa aññāṇaṁ, natthi tassa avijjā avijjogho avijjāyogo avijjānusayo avijjāpariyuṭṭhānaṁ avijjāsaṁyojanaṁ avijjānīvaraṇanti? who knows, who sees,Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

Again, did not the Exalted One say in the Suttanta:Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? “The man, Obhikkhus, who does not understand and comprehend all, who has not emptied himself of all, and given up all, is not capable of extinguishing Ill. And he, Obhikkhus, who understands, comprehends, empties himself of, and gives up all, he is capable of extinguishing Ill”?How then can the Arahantwho knows, who sees,lack knowledge?Āmantā. who knows, who sees,Arahā aññāṇapakato pāṇaṁ haneyya, adinnaṁ ādiyeyya, musā bhaṇeyya, pisuṇaṁ bhaṇeyya, pharusaṁ bhaṇeyya, samphaṁ palapeyya, sandhiṁ chindeyya, nillopaṁ hareyya, ekāgāriyaṁ kareyya, paripanthe tiṭṭheyya, paradāraṁ gaccheyya, gāmaghātaṁ kareyya, nigamaghātaṁ kareyyāti? Again, did not the Exalted One say in the Suttanta:Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

“For him e'en as insight doth come to pass,Three things as bygones are renounced for aye:Belief that in him dwells a soul,And faith in rule and rite—if aught remain.Both from the fourfold doom is he released,And ne'er the six fell deeds are his to do”?Atthi puthujjanassa aññāṇaṁ, puthujjano aññāṇapakato pāṇaṁ haneyya, adinnaṁ ādiyeyya, musā bhaṇeyya …pe… gāmaghātaṁ kareyya, nigamaghātaṁ kareyyāti? “For him e'en as insight doth come to pass,Three things as bygones are renounced for aye:Belief that in him dwells a soul,And faith in rule and rite—if aught remain.Both from the fourfold doom is he released,And ne'er the six fell deeds are his to do”?Āmantā. How then can the Arahant be said to lack knowledge?Atthi arahato aññāṇaṁ, arahā aññāṇapakato pāṇaṁ haneyya, adinnaṁ ādiyeyya …pe… gāmaghātaṁ kareyya, nigamaghātaṁ kareyyāti? Again, did not the Exalted One say in the Suttanta:Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

“Whenever, Obhikkhus, for the Ariyan disciple there doth arise the stainless, flawless eye of the Norm—that whatsoever is liable to happen is also liable to cease—together with the arising of that vision are these three fetters: belief in a soul, doubt, and the contagion of mere rule and ritual put away by him”?Atthi arahato aññāṇaṁ, na ca arahā aññāṇapakato pāṇaṁ haneyya, adinnaṁ ādiyeyya …pe… gāmaghātaṁ kareyya, nigamaghātaṁ kareyyāti? How then can the Arahant be said to lack knowledge?Āmantā. Pubbaseliya:Is it wrong to say “the Arahant lacks knowledge”? May he not be ignorant of the name and lineage of a woman or a man, of a right or wrong road, or of how grasses, twigs, and forest plants are called? If this is so, surely, good sir, it is right to say that he lacks knowledge.Atthi puthujjanassa aññāṇaṁ, na ca puthujjano aññāṇapakato pāṇaṁ haneyya, adinnaṁ ādiyeyya …pe… gāmaghātaṁ kareyya, nigamaghātaṁ kareyyāti? Pubbaseliya:Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

Theravādin:If you say that, in not knowing such things, the Arahant lacks “knowledge”, would you also say he lacks knowledge as to the fruition of Stream-Winning, Once-Returning, Never-Returning, Arahantship? Of course not; hence it should not be said that he lacks knowledge.Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Shwe Zan AungĀmantā. This SuttaCentral edition was prepared byManfred WierichandVen. Vimalaand proofread byJosephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:Atthi arahato satthari aññāṇaṁ, dhamme aññāṇaṁ, saṅghe aññāṇaṁ, sikkhāya aññāṇaṁ, pubbante aññāṇaṁ, aparante aññāṇaṁ, pubbantāparante aññāṇaṁ, idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppannesu dhammesu aññāṇanti? Manfred WierichNa hevaṁ vattabbe.

Ven. VimalaNatthi arahato satthari aññāṇaṁ, dhamme aññāṇaṁ, saṅghe aññāṇaṁ, sikkhāya aññāṇaṁ, pubbante aññāṇaṁ, aparante aññāṇaṁ, pubbantāparante aññāṇaṁ, idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppannesu dhammesu aññāṇanti? Josephine TobinĀmantā. Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Hañci natthi arahato satthari aññāṇaṁ, dhamme aññāṇaṁ, saṅghe aññāṇaṁ …pe… idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppannesu dhammesu aññāṇaṁ, no ca vata re vattabbe—Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Cross-references were linked.Atthi puthujjanassa aññāṇaṁ, atthi tassa satthari aññāṇaṁ, dhamme aññāṇaṁ, saṅghe aññāṇaṁ …pe… idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppannesu dhammesu aññāṇanti? Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Āmantā. Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.Atthi arahato aññāṇaṁ, atthi tassa satthari aññāṇaṁ, dhamme aññāṇaṁ, saṅghe aññāṇaṁ …pe… idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppannesu dhammesu aññāṇanti? The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

This electronic version is published under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 3.0 licence (CC BY-NC 3.0) as found here:http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/Atthi arahato aññāṇaṁ, natthi tassa satthari aññāṇaṁ, dhamme aññāṇaṁ, saṅghe aññāṇaṁ …pe… idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppannesu dhammesu aññāṇanti? All copyright is owned by the Pali Text Society. See also the statement under http://www.palitext.com/ → Publications → Copyright Announcement. For non-commercial use only.Āmantā. Atthi puthujjanassa aññāṇaṁ, natthi tassa satthari aññāṇaṁ, dhamme aññāṇaṁ, saṅghe aññāṇaṁ …pe… idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppannesu dhammesu aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Nanu arahato rāgo pahīno ucchinnamūlo tālāvatthukato anabhāvaṅkato āyatiṁ anuppādadhammoti? Āmantā. Hañci arahato rāgo pahīno ucchinnamūlo tālāvatthukato anabhāvaṅkato āyatiṁ anuppādadhammo, no ca vata re vattabbe—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Nanu arahato doso pahīno …pe… moho pahīno …pe… anottappaṁ pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammanti? Āmantā. Hañci arahato anottappaṁ pahīnaṁ ucchinnamūlaṁ tālāvatthukataṁ anabhāvaṅkataṁ āyatiṁ anuppādadhammaṁ, no ca vata re vattabbe—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Nanu arahato rāgappahānāya maggo bhāvito …pe… bojjhaṅgā bhāvitāti? Āmantā. Hañci arahato rāgappahānāya bojjhaṅgā bhāvitā, no ca vata re vattabbe—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Nanu arahato dosappahānāya …pe… mohappahānāya …pe… anottappapahānāya maggo bhāvito …pe… bojjhaṅgā bhāvitāti? Āmantā. Hañci arahato anottappapahānāya bojjhaṅgā bhāvitā, no ca vata re vattabbe—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Nanu arahā vītarāgo vītadoso vītamoho …pe… sacchikātabbaṁ sacchikatanti? Āmantā. Hañci arahā vītarāgo …pe… sacchikātabbaṁ sacchikataṁ, no ca vata re vattabbe—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Sadhammakusalassa arahato atthi aññāṇaṁ, paradhammakusalassa arahato natthi aññāṇanti. Sadhammakusalassa arahato atthi aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Paradhammakusalassa arahato atthi aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Paradhammakusalassa arahato natthi aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Sadhammakusalassa arahato natthi aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Sadhammakusalassa arahato rāgo pahīno, atthi tassa aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Paradhammakusalassa arahato rāgo pahīno, atthi tassa aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Sadhammakusalassa arahato doso pahīno …pe… moho pahīno …pe… anottappaṁ pahīnaṁ, atthi tassa aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Paradhammakusalassa arahato anottappaṁ pahīnaṁ, atthi tassa aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Sadhammakusalassa arahato rāgappahānāya maggo bhāvito …pe… bojjhaṅgā bhāvitā, atthi tassa aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Paradhammakusalassa arahato rāgappahānāya bojjhaṅgā bhāvitā, atthi tassa aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Sadhammakusalassa arahato dosappahānāya …pe… mohappahānāya …pe… anottappapahānāya maggo bhāvito …pe… bojjhaṅgā bhāvitā, atthi tassa aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Paradhammakusalassa arahato anottappapahānāya bojjhaṅgā bhāvitā, atthi tassa aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Sadhammakusalo arahā vītarāgo vītadoso vītamoho …pe… sacchikātabbaṁ sacchikataṁ, atthi tassa aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Paradhammakusalo arahā vītarāgo vītadoso vītamoho …pe… sacchikātabbaṁ sacchikataṁ, atthi tassa aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Paradhammakusalassa arahato rāgo pahīno, natthi tassa aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Sadhammakusalassa arahato rāgo pahīno, natthi tassa aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Paradhammakusalassa arahato doso pahīno …pe… moho pahīno …pe… anottappaṁ pahīnaṁ, natthi tassa aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Sadhammakusalassa arahato anottappaṁ pahīnaṁ, natthi tassa aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Paradhammakusalassa arahato rāgappahānāya maggo bhāvito …pe… bojjhaṅgā bhāvitā …pe… dosappahānāya mohappahānāya …pe… anottappapahānāya maggo bhāvito …pe… bojjhaṅgā bhāvitā, natthi tassa aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Sadhammakusalassa arahato anottappapahānāya bojjhaṅgā bhāvitā, natthi tassa aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Paradhammakusalo arahā vītarāgo vītadoso vītamoho …pe… sacchikātabbaṁ sacchikataṁ, natthi tassa aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Sadhammakusalo arahā vītarāgo vītadoso vītamoho …pe… sacchikātabbaṁ sacchikataṁ, natthi tassa aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—“jānatohaṁ, bhikkhave, passato āsavānaṁ khayaṁ vadāmi, no ajānato no apassato. Kiñca, bhikkhave, jānato kiṁ passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti? ‘Iti rūpaṁ, iti rūpassa samudayo, iti rūpassa atthaṅgamo, iti vedanā …pe… iti saññā … iti saṅkhārā … iti viññāṇaṁ, iti viññāṇassa samudayo, iti viññāṇassa atthaṅgamo’ti—evaṁ kho, bhikkhave, jānato evaṁ passato āsavānaṁ khayo hotī”ti. Attheva suttantoti? Āmantā. Tena hi na vattabbaṁ—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—“jānatohaṁ, bhikkhave, passato āsavānaṁ khayaṁ vadāmi, no ajānato no apassato. Kiñca, bhikkhave, jānato kiṁ passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti? ‘Idaṁ dukkhan’ti—bhikkhave, jānato passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti, ‘ayaṁ dukkhasamudayo’ti—jānato passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti, ‘ayaṁ dukkhanirodho’ti—jānato passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti, ‘ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’ti—jānato passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti. Evaṁ kho, bhikkhave, jānato evaṁ passato āsavānaṁ khayo hotī”ti. Attheva suttantoti? Āmantā. Tena hi na vattabbaṁ—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—“sabbaṁ, bhikkhave, anabhijānaṁ aparijānaṁ avirājayaṁ appajahaṁ abhabbo dukkhakkhayāya, sabbañca kho, bhikkhave, abhijānaṁ parijānaṁ virājayaṁ pajahaṁ bhabbo dukkhakkhayāyā”ti. Attheva suttantoti? Āmantā. Tena hi na vattabbaṁ—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—

“Sahāvassa dassanasampadāya, Tayassu dhammā jahitā bhavanti; Sakkāyadiṭṭhī vicikicchitañca, Sīlabbataṁ vāpi yadatthi kiñci; Catūhapāyehi ca vippamutto, Chaccābhiṭhānāni abhabba kātun”ti.

Attheva suttantoti? Āmantā. Tena hi na vattabbaṁ—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—“yasmiṁ, bhikkhave, samaye ariyasāvakassa virajaṁ vītamalaṁ dhammacakkhuṁ udapādi—‘yaṁ kiñci samudayadhammaṁ sabbaṁ taṁ nirodhadhamman’ti, saha dassanuppādā, bhikkhave, ariyasāvakassa tīṇi saṁyojanāni pahīyanti—sakkāyadiṭṭhi, vicikicchā, sīlabbataparāmāso”ti. Attheva suttantoti? Āmantā. Tena hi na vattabbaṁ—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Na vattabbaṁ—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti? Āmantā. Nanu arahā itthipurisānaṁ nāmagottaṁ na jāneyya, maggāmaggaṁ na jāneyya, tiṇakaṭṭhavanappatīnaṁ nāmaṁ na jāneyyāti? Āmantā. Hañci arahā itthipurisānaṁ nāmagottaṁ na jāneyya, maggāmaggaṁ na jāneyya, tiṇakaṭṭhavanappatīnaṁ nāmaṁ na jāneyya, tena vata re vattabbe—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Arahā itthipurisānaṁ nāmagottaṁ na jāneyya, maggāmaggaṁ na jāneyya, tiṇakaṭṭhavanappatīnaṁ nāmaṁ na jāneyyāti, atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Arahā sotāpattiphalaṁ vā sakadāgāmiphalaṁ vā anāgāmiphalaṁ vā arahattaṁ vā na jāneyyāti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Aññāṇakathā niṭṭhitā.

English Translation

Pāli Text

Points of Controversy
Points of Controversy
2.2 Of the Knowledge of the Arahant

Controverted Point: That the Arahant may lack knowledge.

Controverted PointTheravādin:You maintain that he does. Then you must also admit that the Arahant has ignorance—ignorance as flood, bond, latent bias, attack, fetter, hindrance. If you deny this, you cannot say he lacks knowledge.You would certainly admit lack of knowledge, ignorance as “flood”, etc., in the case of the average man.How can you assert the former and deny the latter in the case of the Arahant?You would deny that an Arahant from lack of knowledge would kill living things, take what is not given, speak lies, utter slander, speak harshly, indulge in idle talk, commit burglary, carry off plunder, be a highwayman, commit adultery, and destroy village or town; yet you would admit an average man might from lack of knowledge do such things.In fact you assert that an Arahant from lack of knowledge would pursue the opposite course from what an average man would do from lack of knowledge.You deny that an Arahant lacks knowledge in respect of the Teacher, the Doctrine, the Order, of the ethical training, of the beginning of time, the end of time, both beginning and end, and of things as happening by way of assignable causes. You deny that herein he lacks knowledge. Yet you maintain your proposition … .You admit that an average man who lacks knowledge lacks it in those respects, but that an Arahant who lacks knowledge does not lack it in those respects. Must you not also admit that an average man, lacking in knowledge, does not lack it in those respects?Can you maintain that the Arahant—one who has so put away passion, hate, ignorance, conceit, error, doubt, sloth, distraction, impudence, and indiscretion, that they are cut off at the root and made as the stump of a palm tree, incapable of rising again in future renewal, who has cultivated the means for putting away passions and all the other factors of enlightenment to that end, who has consummated as having done with lust, hate, and nescience, and to whom all the terms for the Arahant may be applied—that such an one lacks knowledge?Or how can you maintain your proposition with regard to one class of Arahant only—to those who are proficient in their own field—and not to another class—to those who are proficient in other things?

Did not the Exalted One say in the Suttanta:“In him who knows, Obhikkhus, who sees, do I declare the intoxicants to be extinct, not in him who knows not, neither sees. And what,bhikkhus, in him who knows, who sees, is the extinction of intoxicants? `Such is body, such its cause, so is its cessation; such are the four mental factors, such their cause, so is their cessation'—even this, Obhikkhus, is the extinguishing of intoxicants”?How then can the Arahantwho knows, who sees,lack knowledge?who knows, who sees,

Again, did not the Exalted One say in the Suttanta:“In him who knows, Obhikkhus, who sees, do I declare the intoxicants to be extinct, not in him who knows not, neither sees. And what,bhikkhus, in him who knows, who sees, is the extinguishing of intoxicants? `This is Ill!' herein,bhikkhus, for him who knows, who sees, is that extinguishing. `This is the cause of Ill … this is the cessation of Ill … this is the course leading to the cessation of Ill'—herein,bhikkhus, for him who knows, who sees, is the extinguishing of intoxicants”?How then can the Arahantwho knows, who sees,lack knowledge?who knows, who sees,

Again, did not the Exalted One say in the Suttanta:“The man, Obhikkhus, who does not understand and comprehend all, who has not emptied himself of all, and given up all, is not capable of extinguishing Ill. And he, Obhikkhus, who understands, comprehends, empties himself of, and gives up all, he is capable of extinguishing Ill”?How then can the Arahantwho knows, who sees,lack knowledge?who knows, who sees,Again, did not the Exalted One say in the Suttanta:

“For him e'en as insight doth come to pass,Three things as bygones are renounced for aye:Belief that in him dwells a soul,And faith in rule and rite—if aught remain.Both from the fourfold doom is he released,And ne'er the six fell deeds are his to do”?“For him e'en as insight doth come to pass,Three things as bygones are renounced for aye:Belief that in him dwells a soul,And faith in rule and rite—if aught remain.Both from the fourfold doom is he released,And ne'er the six fell deeds are his to do”?How then can the Arahant be said to lack knowledge?Again, did not the Exalted One say in the Suttanta:

Ven. VimalaJosephine TobinAbbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.

Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.

This electronic version is published under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 3.0 licence (CC BY-NC 3.0) as found here:http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/All copyright is owned by the Pali Text Society. See also the statement under http://www.palitext.com/ → Publications → Copyright Announcement. For non-commercial use only.

Kathāvatthu
Mahāpaṇṇāsaka
Dutiyavagga

Aññāṇakathā

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Atthi arahato avijjā avijjogho avijjāyogo avijjānusayo avijjāpariyuṭṭhānaṁ avijjāsaṁyojanaṁ avijjānīvaraṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe. Natthi arahato avijjā avijjogho avijjāyogo avijjānusayo avijjāpariyuṭṭhānaṁ avijjāsaṁyojanaṁ avijjānīvaraṇanti? Āmantā. Hañci natthi arahato avijjā avijjogho avijjāyogo avijjānusayo avijjāpariyuṭṭhānaṁ avijjāsaṁyojanaṁ avijjānīvaraṇaṁ, no ca vata re vattabbe—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Atthi puthujjanassa aññāṇaṁ, atthi tassa avijjā avijjogho avijjāyogo avijjānusayo avijjāpariyuṭṭhānaṁ avijjāsaṁyojanaṁ avijjānīvaraṇanti? Āmantā. Atthi arahato aññāṇaṁ, atthi tassa avijjā avijjogho avijjāyogo avijjānusayo avijjāpariyuṭṭhānaṁ avijjāsaṁyojanaṁ avijjānīvaraṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

Atthi arahato aññāṇaṁ, natthi tassa avijjā avijjogho avijjāyogo avijjānusayo avijjāpariyuṭṭhānaṁ avijjāsaṁyojanaṁ avijjānīvaraṇanti? Āmantā. Atthi puthujjanassa aññāṇaṁ, natthi tassa avijjā avijjogho avijjāyogo avijjānusayo avijjāpariyuṭṭhānaṁ avijjāsaṁyojanaṁ avijjānīvaraṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Arahā aññāṇapakato pāṇaṁ haneyya, adinnaṁ ādiyeyya, musā bhaṇeyya, pisuṇaṁ bhaṇeyya, pharusaṁ bhaṇeyya, samphaṁ palapeyya, sandhiṁ chindeyya, nillopaṁ hareyya, ekāgāriyaṁ kareyya, paripanthe tiṭṭheyya, paradāraṁ gaccheyya, gāmaghātaṁ kareyya, nigamaghātaṁ kareyyāti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

Atthi puthujjanassa aññāṇaṁ, puthujjano aññāṇapakato pāṇaṁ haneyya, adinnaṁ ādiyeyya, musā bhaṇeyya …pe… gāmaghātaṁ kareyya, nigamaghātaṁ kareyyāti? Āmantā. Atthi arahato aññāṇaṁ, arahā aññāṇapakato pāṇaṁ haneyya, adinnaṁ ādiyeyya …pe… gāmaghātaṁ kareyya, nigamaghātaṁ kareyyāti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

Atthi arahato aññāṇaṁ, na ca arahā aññāṇapakato pāṇaṁ haneyya, adinnaṁ ādiyeyya …pe… gāmaghātaṁ kareyya, nigamaghātaṁ kareyyāti? Āmantā. Atthi puthujjanassa aññāṇaṁ, na ca puthujjano aññāṇapakato pāṇaṁ haneyya, adinnaṁ ādiyeyya …pe… gāmaghātaṁ kareyya, nigamaghātaṁ kareyyāti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Atthi arahato satthari aññāṇaṁ, dhamme aññāṇaṁ, saṅghe aññāṇaṁ, sikkhāya aññāṇaṁ, pubbante aññāṇaṁ, aparante aññāṇaṁ, pubbantāparante aññāṇaṁ, idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppannesu dhammesu aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

Natthi arahato satthari aññāṇaṁ, dhamme aññāṇaṁ, saṅghe aññāṇaṁ, sikkhāya aññāṇaṁ, pubbante aññāṇaṁ, aparante aññāṇaṁ, pubbantāparante aññāṇaṁ, idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppannesu dhammesu aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Hañci natthi arahato satthari aññāṇaṁ, dhamme aññāṇaṁ, saṅghe aññāṇaṁ …pe… idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppannesu dhammesu aññāṇaṁ, no ca vata re vattabbe—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Atthi puthujjanassa aññāṇaṁ, atthi tassa satthari aññāṇaṁ, dhamme aññāṇaṁ, saṅghe aññāṇaṁ …pe… idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppannesu dhammesu aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Atthi arahato aññāṇaṁ, atthi tassa satthari aññāṇaṁ, dhamme aññāṇaṁ, saṅghe aññāṇaṁ …pe… idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppannesu dhammesu aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

Atthi arahato aññāṇaṁ, natthi tassa satthari aññāṇaṁ, dhamme aññāṇaṁ, saṅghe aññāṇaṁ …pe… idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppannesu dhammesu aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Atthi puthujjanassa aññāṇaṁ, natthi tassa satthari aññāṇaṁ, dhamme aññāṇaṁ, saṅghe aññāṇaṁ …pe… idappaccayatāpaṭiccasamuppannesu dhammesu aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

Paradhammakusalassa arahato natthi aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Sadhammakusalassa arahato natthi aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Sadhammakusalassa arahato rāgo pahīno, atthi tassa aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Paradhammakusalassa arahato rāgo pahīno, atthi tassa aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Paradhammakusalassa arahato rāgo pahīno, natthi tassa aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Sadhammakusalassa arahato rāgo pahīno, natthi tassa aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—“jānatohaṁ, bhikkhave, passato āsavānaṁ khayaṁ vadāmi, no ajānato no apassato. Kiñca, bhikkhave, jānato kiṁ passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti? ‘Idaṁ dukkhan’ti—bhikkhave, jānato passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti, ‘ayaṁ dukkhasamudayo’ti—jānato passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti, ‘ayaṁ dukkhanirodho’ti—jānato passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti, ‘ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’ti—jānato passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti. Evaṁ kho, bhikkhave, jānato evaṁ passato āsavānaṁ khayo hotī”ti. Attheva suttantoti? Āmantā. Tena hi na vattabbaṁ—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—

“Sahāvassa dassanasampadāya, Tayassu dhammā jahitā bhavanti; Sakkāyadiṭṭhī vicikicchitañca, Sīlabbataṁ vāpi yadatthi kiñci; Catūhapāyehi ca vippamutto, Chaccābhiṭhānāni abhabba kātun”ti.

Attheva suttantoti? Āmantā. Tena hi na vattabbaṁ—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Aññāṇakathā niṭṭhitā.

Points of ControversyKathāvatthu
Points of ControversyMahāpaṇṇāsaka
2.2 Of the Knowledge of the ArahantDutiyavagga

Controverted Point: That the Arahant may lack knowledge.Aññāṇakathā

Paradhammakusalassa arahato natthi aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Sadhammakusalassa arahato natthi aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Sadhammakusalassa arahato rāgo pahīno, atthi tassa aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Paradhammakusalassa arahato rāgo pahīno, atthi tassa aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Paradhammakusalassa arahato rāgo pahīno, natthi tassa aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Sadhammakusalassa arahato rāgo pahīno, natthi tassa aññāṇanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—“jānatohaṁ, bhikkhave, passato āsavānaṁ khayaṁ vadāmi, no ajānato no apassato. Kiñca, bhikkhave, jānato kiṁ passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti? ‘Idaṁ dukkhan’ti—bhikkhave, jānato passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti, ‘ayaṁ dukkhasamudayo’ti—jānato passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti, ‘ayaṁ dukkhanirodho’ti—jānato passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti, ‘ayaṁ dukkhanirodhagāminī paṭipadā’ti—jānato passato āsavānaṁ khayo hoti. Evaṁ kho, bhikkhave, jānato evaṁ passato āsavānaṁ khayo hotī”ti. Attheva suttantoti? Āmantā. Tena hi na vattabbaṁ—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Atthi arahato aññāṇanti? Āmantā. Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—

“Sahāvassa dassanasampadāya, Tayassu dhammā jahitā bhavanti; Sakkāyadiṭṭhī vicikicchitañca, Sīlabbataṁ vāpi yadatthi kiñci; Catūhapāyehi ca vippamutto, Chaccābhiṭhānāni abhabba kātun”ti.

Attheva suttantoti? Āmantā. Tena hi na vattabbaṁ—“atthi arahato aññāṇan”ti.

Aññāṇakathā niṭṭhitā.