Controverted PointArahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo tīhi phalehi samannāgatoti? as a persistent distinct endowmentĀmantā. Theravādin:You say, in fact, that such a person is endowed with, or possesses four contacts, four feelings, four perceptions, volitions, thoughts, four faiths, energies, mindfulnesses, concentrations, understandings—which cannot be.Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo catūhi phassehi catūhi vedanāhi catūhi saññāhi catūhi cetanāhi catūhi cittehi catūhi saddhāhi catūhi vīriyehi catūhi satīhi catūhi samādhīhi catūhi paññāhi samannāgatoti? Do you make an analogous assertion as to one who is practising for the Third or Second Paths? An analogous paradox will apply in that case; and you mustbe able to describe such persons in terms of lower stages,e.g., one practising for the topmost stage in terms of one who has only got to the first—which is anomalous.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

But can a person who is a proximate candidate for Arahantship be described in terms of a Stream-Winner? Can he be both at the same time? Even if he be a Never-Returner, is he rightly so described when he is in process of becoming Arahant?Similarly for a candidate for the Third and Second Fruitions.Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo dvīhi phalehi samannāgatoti? Would you not rather maintain that a person practising in order to realize Arahantship had evolved past the fruition of Stream-Winning?Āmantā. Or do you maintain that one so evolved was still holding that first Fruitas a distinctive quality? For then you must also hold that he also remains possessed of those evil qualities which as Stream-Winner he has evolved out of—which is absurd.Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo tīhi phassehi tīhi vedanāhi …pe… as a distinctive qualitytīhi paññāhi samannāgatoti? A similar argument applies to a proximate candidate for Arahantship (Fourth Fruit) and the Second Path and Fruit; to such a candidate and the Third Path and Fruit; to a proximate candidate for the Third Fruit and the First and Second Paths and Fruits; and to a proximate candidate for the Second Fruit, and the First Path and Fruit.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Uttarāpathaka, Andhaka:If our proposition is wrong, surely you would nevertheless say that a person who is a proximate candidate for realizing Arahantship had both won the preceding three Fruits, and had not fallen away from them?Sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgatoti? Uttarāpathaka, Andhaka:Āmantā. Uttarāpathaka, Andhaka:Surely then he is still possessed of them.And so for candidates in the Third, Second and First Paths.Sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo dvīhi phassehi dvīhi vedanāhi …pe… Uttarāpathaka, Andhaka:dvīhi paññāhi samannāgatoti? Theravādin:Assumingthat he is still possessed of the three Fruits, do you also admit that, having attained to all four Paths, he is still possessed of all the Paths? Of course you do not;there at least you see my point, neither do you admit a similar possession in other candidates.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

there at least you see my pointArahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgatoti? Shwe Zan AungĀmantā. This SuttaCentral edition was prepared byManfred WierichandVen. Vimalaand proofread byJosephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpanno sattakkhattuparamo, kolaṅkolo, ekabījīti? Manfred WierichNa hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Ven. VimalaArahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmiphalena samannāgatoti? Josephine TobinĀmantā. Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmīti? Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Cross-references were linked.Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo anāgāmiphalena samannāgatoti? Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Āmantā. Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo anāgāmī antarāparinibbāyī, upahaccaparinibbāyī, asaṅkhāraparinibbāyī, sasaṅkhāraparinibbāyī, uddhaṁsoto akaniṭṭhagāmīti? The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

This electronic version is published under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 3.0 licence (CC BY-NC 3.0) as found here:http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgatoti? All copyright is owned by the Pali Text Society. See also the statement under http://www.palitext.com/ → Publications → Copyright Announcement. For non-commercial use only.Āmantā. Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpanno sattakkhattuparamo, kolaṅkolo, ekabījīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmiphalena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpanno sattakkhattuparamo, kolaṅkolo, ekabījīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Sotāpattiphalena samannāgato “sotāpanno”ti vattabboti? Āmantā. Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Sveva arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo, so sotāpannoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Sakadāgāmiphalena samannāgato “sakadāgāmī”ti vattabboti? Āmantā. Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmiphalena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Sveva arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo, so sakadāgāmīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Anāgāmiphalena samannāgato “anāgāmī”ti vattabboti? Āmantā. Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo anāgāmiphalena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Sveva arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo, so anāgāmīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Sotāpattiphalena samannāgato “sotāpanno”ti vattabboti? Āmantā. Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Sveva anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo, so sotāpannoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Sakadāgāmiphalena samannāgato “sakadāgāmī”ti vattabboti? Āmantā. Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmiphalena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Sveva anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo, so sakadāgāmīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Sotāpattiphalena samannāgato “sotāpannoti” vattabboti? Āmantā. Sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Sveva sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo, so sotāpannoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Nanu arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalaṁ vītivattoti? Āmantā. Hañci arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalaṁ vītivatto, no ca vata re vattabbe—“arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgato”ti.

Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalaṁ vītivatto, tena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattimaggaṁ vītivatto, sakkāyadiṭṭhiṁ vicikicchaṁ sīlabbataparāmāsaṁ apāyagamanīyaṁ rāgaṁ apāyagamanīyaṁ dosaṁ apāyagamanīyaṁ mohaṁ vītivatto, tena samannāgatoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmiphalena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Nanu arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmiphalaṁ vītivattoti? Āmantā. Hañci arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmiphalaṁ vītivatto, no ca vata re vattabbe—“arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmiphalena samannāgato”ti.

Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmiphalaṁ vītivatto, tena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmimaggaṁ vītivatto, oḷārikaṁ kāmarāgaṁ oḷārikaṁ byāpādaṁ vītivatto, tena samannāgatoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo anāgāmiphalena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Nanu arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo anāgāmiphalaṁ vītivattoti? Āmantā. Hañci arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo anāgāmiphalaṁ vītivatto, no ca vata re vattabbe—“arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo anāgāmiphalena samannāgato”ti.

Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo anāgāmiphalaṁ vītivatto, tena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo anāgāmimaggaṁ vītivatto, aṇusahagataṁ kāmarāgaṁ aṇusahagataṁ byāpādaṁ vītivatto, tena samannāgatoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Nanu anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalaṁ vītivattoti? Āmantā. Hañci anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalaṁ vītivatto, no ca vata re vattabbe—“anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgato”ti.

Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalaṁ vītivatto, tena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattimaggaṁ vītivatto, sakkāyadiṭṭhiṁ …pe… apāyagamanīyaṁ mohaṁ vītivatto, tena samannāgatoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmiphalena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Nanu anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmiphalaṁ vītivattoti? Āmantā. Hañci anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmiphalaṁ vītivatto, no ca vata re vattabbe—“anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmiphalena samannāgato”ti.

Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmiphalaṁ vītivatto, tena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sakadāgāmimaggaṁ vītivatto, oḷārikaṁ kāmarāgaṁ oḷārikaṁ byāpādaṁ vītivatto, tena samannāgatoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Nanu sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalaṁ vītivattoti? Āmantā. Hañci sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalaṁ vītivatto, no ca vata re vattabbe—“sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgato”ti.

Sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalaṁ vītivatto, tena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattimaggaṁ vītivatto, sakkāyadiṭṭhiṁ …pe… apāyagamanīyaṁ mohaṁ vītivatto, tena samannāgatoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Na vattabbaṁ—“arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo tīhi phalehi samannāgato”ti? Āmantā. Nanu arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipannena puggalena tīṇi phalāni paṭiladdhāni, tehi ca aparihīnoti? Āmantā. Hañci arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipannena puggalena tīṇi phalāni paṭiladdhāni tehi ca aparihīno, tena vata re vattabbe—“arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo tīhi phalehi samannāgato”ti.

Na vattabbaṁ—“anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo dvīhi phalehi samannāgato”ti? Āmantā. Nanu anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipannena puggalena dve phalāni paṭiladdhāni, tehi ca aparihīnoti? Āmantā. Hañci anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipannena puggalena dve phalāni paṭiladdhāni tehi ca aparihīno, tena vata re vattabbe—“anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo dvīhi phalehi samannāgato”ti.

Na vattabbaṁ—“sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgato”ti? Āmantā. Nanu sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipannena puggalena sotāpattiphalaṁ paṭiladdhaṁ, tena ca aparihīnoti? Āmantā. Hañci sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipannena puggalena sotāpattiphalaṁ paṭiladdhaṁ tena ca aparihīno, tena vata re vattabbe—“sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgato”ti.

Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipannena puggalena tīṇi phalāni paṭiladdhāni tehi ca aparihīnoti, arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo tīhi phalehi samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipannena puggalena cattāro maggā paṭiladdhā tehi ca aparihīnoti, arahattasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo catūhi maggehi samannāgatoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipannena puggalena dve phalāni paṭiladdhāni tehi ca aparihīnoti, anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo dvīhi phalehi samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipannena puggalena tayo maggā paṭiladdhā tehi ca aparihīnoti, anāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo tīhi maggehi samannāgatoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipannena puggalena sotāpattiphalaṁ paṭiladdhaṁ tena ca aparihīnoti, sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo sotāpattiphalena samannāgatoti? Āmantā. Sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipannena puggalena dve maggā paṭiladdhā tehi ca aparihīnoti, sakadāgāmiphalasacchikiriyāya paṭipanno puggalo dvīhi maggehi samannāgatoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Aparāpi samannāgatakathā niṭṭhitā.