Controverted PointAtthi rūpaṁ arūpesūti? Theravādin:Is then “matter” (rūpa) a sphere of life, a destiny, a realm of beings, renewed life, a matrix, an acquiring of individuality? This you deny; but all this you can predicate truly of Arūpa. Hence you cannot maintain your proposition.Āmantā. You cannot predicate them truly of a five-mode existence, one mode of which is material qualities. But you can do so respecting a four-mode existence, that is, with the material qualities omitted, as is the case with Arūpa … .Rūpabhavo rūpagati rūpasattāvāso rūpasaṁsāro rūpayoni rūpattabhāvapaṭilābhoti? You can predicate them truly of the Rūpa-sphere, where there yet is matter. But this sphere is not identical with the Arūpa-sphere.And if you predicate matter of the Arūpa-sphere, you must show that matter agrees with the description you can truly give of the Arūpa-sphere as a state of existence, a destiny, etc.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Again, did not the Exalted One say that the Arūpa was a way of escape from visible or material things? If that is true, do you still maintain your proposition? Yes? Well, then, the Exalted One said that renunciation was a way of escape from sense-desires. Now, according to your reasoning (if there is matter in the Immaterial), there are sense-desires in renunciation, and there are intoxicants inthose who are freed from them, there are things “included” (in intoxicant-infested states of the three spheres) among the “unincluded” which is absurd.nanu arūpabhavo arūpagati arūpasattāvāso arūpasaṁsāro arūpayoni arūpattabhāvapaṭilābhoti? Shwe Zan AungĀmantā. This SuttaCentral edition was prepared byManfred WierichandVen. Vimalaand proofread byJosephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:Hañci arūpabhavo …pe… arūpattabhāvapaṭilābho, no ca vata re vattabbe—Manfred Wierich“atthi rūpaṁ arūpesū”ti.

Ven. VimalaAtthi rūpaṁ arūpesūti? Josephine TobinĀmantā. Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Pañcavokārabhavo gati sattāvāso saṁsāro yoni viññāṇaṭṭhiti attabhāvapaṭilābhoti? Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Cross-references were linked.nanu catuvokārabhavo …pe… attabhāvapaṭilābhoti? Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Āmantā. Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.Hañci catuvokārabhavo gati …pe… attabhāvapaṭilābho, no ca vata re vattabbe—The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.“atthi rūpaṁ arūpesū”ti.

This electronic version is published under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 3.0 licence (CC BY-NC 3.0) as found here:http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/Atthi rūpaṁ rūpadhātuyā, so ca rūpabhavo rūpagati rūpasattāvāso rūpasaṁsāro rūpayoni rūpattabhāvapaṭilābhoti? All copyright is owned by the Pali Text Society. See also the statement under http://www.palitext.com/ → Publications → Copyright Announcement. For non-commercial use only.Āmantā. Atthi rūpaṁ arūpesu, so ca rūpabhavo rūpagati …pe… rūpattabhāvapaṭilābhoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… atthi rūpaṁ rūpadhātuyā, so ca pañcavokārabhavo gati …pe… attabhāvapaṭilābhoti? Āmantā. Atthi rūpaṁ arūpesu, so ca pañcavokārabhavo gati …pe… attabhāvapaṭilābhoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Atthi rūpaṁ arūpesu, so ca arūpabhavo arūpagati arūpasattāvāso arūpasaṁsāro arūpayoni arūpattabhāvapaṭilābhoti? Āmantā. Atthi rūpaṁ rūpadhātuyā, so ca arūpabhavo arūpagati …pe… arūpattabhāvapaṭilābhoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… atthi rūpaṁ arūpesu, so ca catuvokārabhavo gati …pe… attabhāvapaṭilābhoti? Āmantā. Atthi rūpaṁ rūpadhātuyā, so ca catuvokārabhavo gati …pe… attabhāvapaṭilābhoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Atthi rūpaṁ arūpesūti? Āmantā. Nanu rūpānaṁ nissaraṇaṁ arūpaṁ vuttaṁ bhagavatāti? Āmantā. Hañci rūpānaṁ nissaraṇaṁ arūpaṁ vuttaṁ bhagavatā, no ca vata re vattabbe—“atthi rūpaṁ arūpesū”ti.

Rūpānaṁ nissaraṇaṁ arūpaṁ vuttaṁ bhagavatā, atthi rūpaṁ arūpesūti? Āmantā. Kāmānaṁ nissaraṇaṁ nekkhammaṁ vuttaṁ bhagavatā, atthi nekkhammesu kāmā, atthi anāsavesu āsavā, atthi apariyāpannesu pariyāpannāti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Arūpe rūpakathā niṭṭhitā.