Controverted PointAtītādiekaccakathā

Theravādin:(i.)Does the past exist? Some of it exists, you reply, some does not exist. You must then admit,in equivalent terms, that some of it has ceased, departed, passed away, utterly passed away; some of it has not ceased, departed, passed away, utterly passed away. Yet you deny this.Atītaṁ atthīti? in equivalent termsEkaccaṁ atthi, ekaccaṁ natthīti. You must also admit, more specifically, that of past things of which the results are not yet matured some are existent, some not—you deny this—and that of past things of which the results are matured, some are existent, some not—you deny this—further, that of things which are without result, some exist, some do not. This also you deny.Ekaccaṁ niruddhaṁ, ekaccaṁ na niruddhaṁ; Again, referring to your declaration that the past exists in part, which of the past exists, which not?ekaccaṁ vigataṁ, ekaccaṁ avigataṁ; Kassapika:Those past things of which the effect is not matured exist; those past things of which the effect is matured do not.ekaccaṁ atthaṅgataṁ, ekaccaṁ na atthaṅgataṁ; Kassapika:ekaccaṁ abbhatthaṅgataṁ, ekaccaṁ na abbhatthaṅgatanti? Theravādin:But if you admit the existence of the former part, you must also admit the existence of the latter part, and also the existence of those past things that are withouteffect. Again, if those past things of which the effect is matured are non-existent, no less are those past things of which the effect is not matured existent, as well as those things which are without effect. Once more, you say, those past things the effect of which is not matured exist, but might not such past things be said to have ceased? You admit this? But you cannot say that a thing both is and has ceased.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Do you contend that those past things, the effect of which is not yet matured, but which have ceased, exist? Then must you also admit that those past things, the effect of which is matured and which have ceased, exist, as well as those past things which are without effect—that these, too, exist.Atītaṁ ekaccaṁ atthi, ekaccaṁ natthīti? If, on the other hand, you say that those past things, the effect of which is matured, and which have ceased, do not exist, then must you also admit that those past things, the effect of which is not yet matured, and which have ceased, do not existcontradicting what you have previously affirmed, as well as those things which are without effect.Āmantā. contradicting what you have previously affirmedAtītā avipakkavipākā dhammā ekacce atthi, ekacce natthīti? Or do those past things, the effect of which is not yet matured, but which have ceased, exist? And are those past things, the effect of which is matured, but which have ceased, non-existent? Then you hereby affirm also that some of those past things, the effect of which is in part matured, and in part not yet matured, but which have ceased, exist, while some do not exist—which you deny.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Kassapika:Is it then wrong to say “those past things, the effect of which is not yet matured, exist”?atītaṁ ekaccaṁ atthi, ekaccaṁ natthīti? Kassapika:Āmantā. Kassapika:Is it not a fact that past things, the effect of which is not yet matured, will become mature as to effect?Atītā vipakkavipākā dhammā ekacce atthi, ekacce natthīti? Kassapika:Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Kassapika:If that be so, then it is surely not wrong to say that past things yet immature in their effect exist.atītaṁ ekaccaṁ atthi, ekaccaṁ natthīti? Kassapika:Āmantā. Theravādin:Granting that such past things will become mature as to their effect, can they be said to exist? Yes, you say; but granting that they will in this respect mature, can they be said to be present? If you admit this, then, granting that present things will perish, are they non-existent?Atītā avipākā dhammā ekacce atthi ekacce natthīti? (i.) To the question “Does the future exist”? you reply “some of it exists, some does not”. You must then admitin equivalent termsthat some of it is born, produced, has happened, appeared, some of it not. Yet you deny this. Granting your declaration, do some things that have been inevitably determined exist, and some not? You are committed to this, and also to this: that some future things which are not inevitably determined exist, and some not.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

in equivalent termsAtītaṁ ekaccaṁ atthi ekaccaṁ natthīti? Referring to your declaration (ii.): which of the future exists, which does not exist? You reply: “Those future things which are inevitably determined exist, those that are not so determined do not”. You deny then that those future things not inevitably determined do exist, though you are really committed to this by the former half of your reply. Again, if future things not inevitably determined are non-existent, then also future things which are inevitably determined are also non-existent.Āmantā. With regard to those future things inevitably determined which you say “exist”, would you not admit that such future things have not been born? Yes? Then how can you say that things not yet born exist?Kiṁ atthi kiṁ natthīti? Or, if inevitably determined future things, which are not yet born, do exist, then future things not so determined, which are not yet born, exist. Or again, if future thingsnot inevitably determined, which are not yet born, are non-existent, then you must say no less of similar but inevitably determined things.Atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā—Kassapika:Then is it wrong to say “those future things which are inevitably determined exist”?te atthi; Kassapika:atītā vipakkavipākā dhammā—Kassapika:But will not future things which are inevitably determined happen?te natthīti. Kassapika:Atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā—Kassapika:Surely then things inevitably determined exist.te atthīti? Kassapika:Āmantā. Theravādin:Granting that future things, if inevitably determined, will happen, do they exist?Atītā vipakkavipākā dhammā—Kassapika:Yes.te atthīti? Kassapika:Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Theravādin:Granting they will happen, are they present?atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā—Kassapika:Nothe future is not the present.te atthīti? Kassapika:Āmantā. the future is not the present.Atītā avipākā dhammā—Kassapika:Yessince, if they are existent, they are present.te atthīti? Kassapika:Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

since, if they are existent, they are present.Atītā vipakkavipākā dhammā—Theravādin:And granting that present things will cease, are they non-existent?te natthīti? Kassapika:Nay, that cannot truly be said.Āmantā. Kassapika:Atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā—Theravādin:But you have already admitted this.te natthīti? Shwe Zan AungNa hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

This SuttaCentral edition was prepared byManfred WierichandVen. Vimalaand proofread byJosephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:Atītā avipākā dhammā—Manfred Wierichte natthīti? Ven. VimalaĀmantā. Josephine TobinAtītā avipakkavipākā dhammā—Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.te natthīti? Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Cross-references were linked.Atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā—Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.te atthīti? Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.Āmantā. The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Nanu atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā niruddhāti? This electronic version is published under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 3.0 licence (CC BY-NC 3.0) as found here:http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/Āmantā. All copyright is owned by the Pali Text Society. See also the statement under http://www.palitext.com/ → Publications → Copyright Announcement. For non-commercial use only.Hañci atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā niruddhā, no ca vata re vattabbe—“atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā—te atthī”ti.

Atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā niruddhā—te atthīti? Āmantā. Atītā vipakkavipākā dhammā niruddhā—te atthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā niruddhā—te atthīti? Āmantā. Atītā avipākā dhammā niruddhā—te atthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Atītā vipakkavipākā dhammā niruddhā—te natthīti? Āmantā. Atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā niruddhā—te natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Atītā avipākā dhammā niruddhā—te natthīti? Āmantā. Atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā niruddhā—te natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā niruddhā—te atthīti? Āmantā. Atītā vipakkavipākā dhammā niruddhā—te natthīti? Āmantā. Atītā ekadesaṁ vipakkavipākā dhammā ekadesaṁ avipakkavipākā dhammā niruddhā—te ekacce atthi ekacce natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Na vattabbaṁ—“atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā—te atthī”ti? Āmantā. Nanu atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā vipaccissantīti? Āmantā. Hañci atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā vipaccissanti, tena vata re vattabbe—“atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā—te atthī”ti.

Atītā avipakkavipākā dhammā vipaccissantīti katvā te atthīti? Āmantā. Vipaccissantīti katvā paccuppannāti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… vipaccissantīti katvā paccuppannāti? Āmantā. Paccuppannā dhammā nirujjhissantīti katvā te natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Anāgatādiekaccakathā

Anāgataṁ atthīti? Ekaccaṁ atthi, ekaccaṁ natthīti. Ekaccaṁ jātaṁ, ekaccaṁ ajātaṁ; ekaccaṁ sañjātaṁ, ekaccaṁ asañjātaṁ; ekaccaṁ nibbattaṁ, ekaccaṁ anibbattaṁ; ekaccaṁ pātubhūtaṁ, ekaccaṁ apātubhūtanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Anāgataṁ ekaccaṁ atthi, ekaccaṁ natthīti? Āmantā. Anāgatā uppādino dhammā ekacce atthi, ekacce natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… anāgataṁ ekaccaṁ atthi, ekaccaṁ natthīti? Āmantā. Anāgatā anuppādino dhammā ekacce atthi, ekacce natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Anāgataṁ ekaccaṁ atthi, ekaccaṁ natthīti? Āmantā. Kiṁ atthi, kiṁ natthīti? Anāgatā uppādino dhammā—te atthi; anāgatā anuppādino dhammā—te natthīti. Anāgatā uppādino dhammā—te atthīti? Āmantā. Anāgatā anuppādino dhammā—te atthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… anāgatā anuppādino dhammā—te natthīti? Āmantā. Anāgatā uppādino dhammā—te natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Anāgatā uppādino dhammā—te atthīti? Āmantā. Nanu anāgatā uppādino dhammā ajātāti? Āmantā. Hañci anāgatā uppādino dhammā ajātā, no ca vata re vattabbe—“anāgatā uppādino dhammā—te atthī”ti.

Anāgatā uppādino dhammā ajātā—te atthīti? Āmantā. Anāgatā anuppādino dhammā ajātā—te atthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… anāgatā anuppādino dhammā ajātā—te natthīti? Āmantā. Anāgatā uppādino dhammā ajātā—te natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Na vattabbaṁ—“anāgatā uppādino dhammā—te atthī”ti? Āmantā. Nanu anāgatā uppādino dhammā uppajjissantīti? Āmantā. Hañci anāgatā uppādino dhammā uppajjissanti, tena vata re vattabbe—“anāgatā uppādino dhammā—te atthī”ti.

Anāgatā uppādino dhammā uppajjissantīti katvā te atthīti? Āmantā. Uppajjissantīti katvā paccuppannāti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… uppajjissantīti katvā paccuppannāti? Āmantā. Paccuppannā dhammā nirujjhissantīti katvā te natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Ekaccaṁ atthītikathā niṭṭhitā.