Points of ControversyKathāvatthu
Points of ControversyMahāpaṇṇāsaka
1.10 Of Existence in Immutable ModesPaṭhamavagga

Controverted Point: That things exist so and not otherwise.Hevatthikathā

Controverted PointAtītaṁ atthīti? Andhaka:It exists on this wise, it does not exist on that wise.Hevatthi, heva natthīti. Andhaka:Sevatthi, seva natthīti? Theravādin:Does the past, as you describe it, both exist and not exist? You deny, then affirm—for you must affirm. Andif this same past both exists and does not exist, then is also existence non-existence and conversely, then is the state of being a state of non-being and conversely, then are “is” and “is not” convertible terms, identical, one in meaning, the same, same in content and in origin. And this of course you do not admit.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Similarly, you say the future exists only on this wise, not on that wise. This is to say it both exists and does not exist; and that involves the same antinomy.sevatthi, seva natthīti? Similarly,you say the present exists only on this wise, not on that wise—and you are landed as before.Āmantā. If the past exists only as you say it does, how is it existent, how non-existent?Atthaṭṭho natthaṭṭho, natthaṭṭho atthaṭṭho, atthibhāvo natthibhāvo, natthibhāvo atthibhāvo, atthīti vā natthīti vā, natthīti vā atthīti vā esese ekaṭṭhe same samabhāge tajjāteti? Andhaka:The past exists only as past; it does not exist as future, it does not exist as present.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Andhaka:Anāgataṁ atthīti? Theravādin:But this still commits you to saying that the same both is and is not, and thus to the same antinomy.Hevatthi, heva natthīti. Similarly as regards the “how” of such future and present as you hold to exist.Sevatthi, seva natthīti? Andhaka:Then is it wrong to say “the past or the future or the present exists only on this wise, not on that wise”?Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Andhaka:sevatthi, seva natthīti? Andhaka:Do you mean then that the past exists also as future and as present, the future also as past and as present, the present also as past and as future—for to this you are committed? Hence I am surely right.Āmantā. Andhaka:Atthaṭṭho natthaṭṭho, natthaṭṭho atthaṭṭho, atthibhāvo natthibhāvo, natthibhāvo atthibhāvo, atthīti vā natthīti vā, natthīti vā atthīti vā esese ekaṭṭhe same samabhāge tajjāteti? Andhaka:They exist on this wise, they do not exist on that wise.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Andhaka:Paccuppannaṁ atthīti? Theravādin:Here again you are committed to saying “the same both exists and does not exist”, and to the same antinomy as before.Similarly in the case of the other four aggregates—feeling, etc.Again, with reference tohowthey exist on this wise, and how they do not, when you reply, “the one aggregate,e.g., the bodily, exists as such, but not as any of the four mental aggregates”, you are equally committed to the antinomy stated above.Hevatthi, heva natthīti. Andhaka:Then is it wrong to say “any aggregate exists only on this wise, not on that wise”?Sevatthi, seva natthīti? Andhaka:Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Andhaka:But this commits you to saying that each aggregate exists equallyasany of the other four. Surely then I am right in saying that each aggregate exists in a specific fashion, and not otherwise.sevatthi, seva natthīti? Andhaka:Āmantā. Shwe Zan AungAtthaṭṭho natthaṭṭho …pe… This SuttaCentral edition was prepared byManfred WierichandVen. Vimalaand proofread byJosephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:same samabhāge tajjāteti? Manfred WierichNa hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Ven. VimalaAtītaṁ hevatthi, heva natthīti? Josephine TobinĀmantā. Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Kintatthi, kinti natthīti? Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Atītaṁ atītanti hevatthi, atītaṁ anāgatanti heva natthi, atītaṁ paccuppannanti heva natthīti. Cross-references were linked.Sevatthi, seva natthīti? Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.sevatthi, seva natthīti? The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Āmantā. This electronic version is published under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 3.0 licence (CC BY-NC 3.0) as found here:http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/Atthaṭṭho natthaṭṭho, natthaṭṭho atthaṭṭho, atthibhāvo natthibhāvo, natthibhāvo atthibhāvo, atthīti vā natthīti vā, natthīti vā atthīti vā esese ekaṭṭhe same samabhāge tajjāteti? All copyright is owned by the Pali Text Society. See also the statement under http://www.palitext.com/ → Publications → Copyright Announcement. For non-commercial use only.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Anāgataṁ hevatthi, heva natthīti? Āmantā. Kintatthi, kinti natthīti? Anāgataṁ anāgatanti hevatthi, anāgataṁ atītanti heva natthi, anāgataṁ paccuppannanti heva natthīti. Sevatthi, seva natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… sevatthi, seva natthīti? Āmantā. Atthaṭṭho natthaṭṭho, natthaṭṭho atthaṭṭho …pe… same samabhāge tajjāteti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Paccuppannaṁ hevatthi, heva natthīti? Āmantā. Kintatthi, kinti natthīti? Paccuppannaṁ paccuppannanti hevatthi, paccuppannaṁ atītanti heva natthi, paccuppannaṁ anāgatanti heva natthīti. Sevatthi, seva natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… sevatthi, seva natthīti? Āmantā. Atthaṭṭho natthaṭṭho …pe… same samabhāge tajjāteti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Na vattabbaṁ—“atītaṁ hevatthi, heva natthi; anāgataṁ hevatthi, heva natthi; paccuppannaṁ hevatthi, heva natthī”ti? Āmantā. Atītaṁ anāgatanti hevatthi, atītaṁ paccuppannanti hevatthi, anāgataṁ atītanti hevatthi, anāgataṁ paccuppannanti hevatthi, paccuppannaṁ atītanti hevatthi, paccuppannaṁ anāgatanti hevatthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe. …pe…. Tena hi atītaṁ hevatthi heva natthi, anāgataṁ hevatthi heva natthi, paccuppannaṁ hevatthi, heva natthīti.

Rūpaṁ atthīti? Hevatthi, heva natthīti. Sevatthi, seva natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… sevatthi, seva natthīti? Āmantā. Atthaṭṭho natthaṭṭho, natthaṭṭho atthaṭṭho, atthibhāvo natthibhāvo, natthibhāvo atthibhāvo, atthīti vā natthīti vā, natthīti vā atthīti vā esese ekaṭṭhe same samabhāge tajjāteti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Vedanā … saññā … saṅkhārā … viññāṇaṁ atthīti? Hevatthi, heva natthīti. Sevatthi, seva natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… sevatthi, seva natthīti? Āmantā. Atthaṭṭho natthaṭṭho …pe… same samabhāge tajjāteti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Rūpaṁ hevatthi, heva natthīti? Āmantā. Kintatthi, kinti natthīti? Rūpaṁ rūpanti hevatthi, rūpaṁ vedanāti heva natthi …pe… rūpaṁ saññāti heva natthi …pe… rūpaṁ saṅkhārāti heva natthi …pe… rūpaṁ viññāṇanti heva natthīti. Sevatthi, seva natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… sevatthi, seva natthīti? Āmantā. Atthaṭṭho natthaṭṭho …pe… same samabhāge tajjāteti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Vedanā … saññā … saṅkhārā … viññāṇaṁ hevatthi, heva natthīti? Āmantā. Kintatthi, kinti natthīti? Viññāṇaṁ viññāṇanti hevatthi. Viññāṇaṁ rūpanti heva natthi …pe… viññāṇaṁ vedanāti heva natthi …pe… viññāṇaṁ saññāti heva natthi …pe… viññāṇaṁ saṅkhārāti heva natthīti. Sevatthi, seva natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… sevatthi, seva natthīti? Āmantā. Atthaṭṭho natthaṭṭho …pe… same samabhāge tajjāteti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Na vattabbaṁ—“rūpaṁ hevatthi, heva natthīti; vedanā … saññā … saṅkhārā … viññāṇaṁ hevatthi, heva natthīti? Āmantā. Rūpaṁ vedanāti hevatthi …pe… rūpaṁ saññāti hevatthi …pe… rūpaṁ saṅkhārāti hevatthi …pe… rūpaṁ viññāṇanti hevatthi … vedanā … saññā … saṅkhārā … viññāṇaṁ rūpanti hevatthi … viññāṇaṁ vedanāti hevatthi … viññāṇaṁ saññāti hevatthi … viññāṇaṁ saṅkhārāti hevatthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… tena hi rūpaṁ hevatthi, heva natthi; vedanā … saññā … saṅkhārā … viññāṇaṁ hevatthi, heva natthīti.

Hevatthikathā niṭṭhitā.

Tassuddānaṁ

Upalabbho parihāni, Brahmacariyavāso odhiso; Pariññā kāmarāgappahānaṁ, Sabbatthivādo āyatanaṁ; Atītānāgato subhaṅgo, Sabbe dhammā satipaṭṭhānā;

Hevatthi heva natthīti.
Mahāvaggo.

English Translation

Pāli Text

Points of Controversy
Points of Controversy
1.10 Of Existence in Immutable Modes

Controverted Point: That things exist so and not otherwise.

Controverted PointAndhaka:It exists on this wise, it does not exist on that wise.Andhaka:Theravādin:Does the past, as you describe it, both exist and not exist? You deny, then affirm—for you must affirm. Andif this same past both exists and does not exist, then is also existence non-existence and conversely, then is the state of being a state of non-being and conversely, then are “is” and “is not” convertible terms, identical, one in meaning, the same, same in content and in origin. And this of course you do not admit.Similarly, you say the future exists only on this wise, not on that wise. This is to say it both exists and does not exist; and that involves the same antinomy.Similarly,you say the present exists only on this wise, not on that wise—and you are landed as before.If the past exists only as you say it does, how is it existent, how non-existent?Andhaka:The past exists only as past; it does not exist as future, it does not exist as present.

Andhaka:Theravādin:But this still commits you to saying that the same both is and is not, and thus to the same antinomy.Similarly as regards the “how” of such future and present as you hold to exist.Andhaka:Then is it wrong to say “the past or the future or the present exists only on this wise, not on that wise”?Andhaka:Andhaka:Do you mean then that the past exists also as future and as present, the future also as past and as present, the present also as past and as future—for to this you are committed? Hence I am surely right.Andhaka:Andhaka:They exist on this wise, they do not exist on that wise.

Andhaka:Theravādin:Here again you are committed to saying “the same both exists and does not exist”, and to the same antinomy as before.Similarly in the case of the other four aggregates—feeling, etc.Again, with reference tohowthey exist on this wise, and how they do not, when you reply, “the one aggregate,e.g., the bodily, exists as such, but not as any of the four mental aggregates”, you are equally committed to the antinomy stated above.Andhaka:Then is it wrong to say “any aggregate exists only on this wise, not on that wise”?Andhaka:Andhaka:But this commits you to saying that each aggregate exists equallyasany of the other four. Surely then I am right in saying that each aggregate exists in a specific fashion, and not otherwise.Andhaka:Shwe Zan AungThis SuttaCentral edition was prepared byManfred WierichandVen. Vimalaand proofread byJosephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:Manfred Wierich

Ven. VimalaJosephine TobinAbbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.This electronic version is published under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 3.0 licence (CC BY-NC 3.0) as found here:http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/All copyright is owned by the Pali Text Society. See also the statement under http://www.palitext.com/ → Publications → Copyright Announcement. For non-commercial use only.

Kathāvatthu
Mahāpaṇṇāsaka
Paṭhamavagga

Hevatthikathā

Atītaṁ atthīti? Hevatthi, heva natthīti. Sevatthi, seva natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… sevatthi, seva natthīti? Āmantā. Atthaṭṭho natthaṭṭho, natthaṭṭho atthaṭṭho, atthibhāvo natthibhāvo, natthibhāvo atthibhāvo, atthīti vā natthīti vā, natthīti vā atthīti vā esese ekaṭṭhe same samabhāge tajjāteti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Anāgataṁ atthīti? Hevatthi, heva natthīti. Sevatthi, seva natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… sevatthi, seva natthīti? Āmantā. Atthaṭṭho natthaṭṭho, natthaṭṭho atthaṭṭho, atthibhāvo natthibhāvo, natthibhāvo atthibhāvo, atthīti vā natthīti vā, natthīti vā atthīti vā esese ekaṭṭhe same samabhāge tajjāteti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Paccuppannaṁ atthīti? Hevatthi, heva natthīti. Sevatthi, seva natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… sevatthi, seva natthīti? Āmantā. Atthaṭṭho natthaṭṭho …pe… same samabhāge tajjāteti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Atītaṁ hevatthi, heva natthīti? Āmantā. Kintatthi, kinti natthīti? Atītaṁ atītanti hevatthi, atītaṁ anāgatanti heva natthi, atītaṁ paccuppannanti heva natthīti. Sevatthi, seva natthīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… sevatthi, seva natthīti? Āmantā. Atthaṭṭho natthaṭṭho, natthaṭṭho atthaṭṭho, atthibhāvo natthibhāvo, natthibhāvo atthibhāvo, atthīti vā natthīti vā, natthīti vā atthīti vā esese ekaṭṭhe same samabhāge tajjāteti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Hevatthikathā niṭṭhitā.

Tassuddānaṁ

Upalabbho parihāni, Brahmacariyavāso odhiso; Pariññā kāmarāgappahānaṁ, Sabbatthivādo āyatanaṁ; Atītānāgato subhaṅgo, Sabbe dhammā satipaṭṭhānā;

Hevatthi heva natthīti.
Mahāvaggo.

Points of ControversyKathāvatthu
Points of ControversyMahāpaṇṇāsaka
1.10 Of Existence in Immutable ModesPaṭhamavagga

Controverted Point: That things exist so and not otherwise.Hevatthikathā

Hevatthikathā niṭṭhitā.

Tassuddānaṁ

Upalabbho parihāni, Brahmacariyavāso odhiso; Pariññā kāmarāgappahānaṁ, Sabbatthivādo āyatanaṁ; Atītānāgato subhaṅgo, Sabbe dhammā satipaṭṭhānā;

Hevatthi heva natthīti.
Mahāvaggo.