Points of ControversyKathāvatthu
Points of ControversyMahāpaṇṇāsaka
11.4 Of the Utterance, “This is Pain and Sorrow!”Ekādasamavagga

Controverted Point: That from utterance of the word, “This is Ill!” insight into the nature of Ill is set working.Idaṁdukkhantikathā

Controverted Point“Idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Theravādin:But you deny that a similar result ensues on the utterance of the other three Truths: This is the Cause, this the Cessation, this the Path leading to the Cessation of Ill. Why is this?Why deny for these what you affirm for the first Truth?Āmantā. Or why deny, as you do, that insight into the impermanence of each of the five aggregates (body-mind) follows from statement of the fact?Or, once more,that insight into the soullessness of each aggregate follows from a statement of the fact?On what grounds can you defend the sequence in one case only out of the three sets of five propositions?“Ayaṁ dukkhasamudayo”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “ayaṁ dukkhasamudayo”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Now do you mean to tell me that insight issues from every syllable of this formula: This–is–pain–and–sor–row?Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Andhaka:Nay, that cannot truly be said … .“idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Andhaka:Āmantā. Shwe Zan Aung“Ayaṁ dukkhanirodho”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “ayaṁ dukkhanirodho”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? This SuttaCentral edition was prepared byManfred WierichandVen. Vimalaand proofread byJosephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Manfred Wierich“idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Ven. VimalaĀmantā. Josephine Tobin“Ayaṁ maggo”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “ayaṁ maggo”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.“Ayaṁ samudayo”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “ayaṁ samudayo”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Cross-references were linked.Āmantā. Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.“Idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.“ayaṁ nirodho”ti … This electronic version is published under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 3.0 licence (CC BY-NC 3.0) as found here:http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/“ayaṁ maggo”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “ayaṁ maggo”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? All copyright is owned by the Pali Text Society. See also the statement under http://www.palitext.com/ → Publications → Copyright Announcement. For non-commercial use only.Āmantā. “Idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

“Idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Āmantā. “Rūpaṁ aniccan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “rūpaṁ aniccan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… “idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Āmantā. Vedanā … saññā … saṅkhārā … “viññāṇaṁ aniccan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “viññāṇaṁ aniccan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

“Idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Āmantā. “Rūpaṁ anattā”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “rūpaṁ anattā”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… “idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Āmantā. Vedanā … saññā … saṅkhārā … “viññāṇaṁ anattā”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “viññāṇaṁ anattā”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

“Rūpaṁ aniccan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “rūpaṁ aniccan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Āmantā. “Idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… vedanā … saññā … saṅkhārā … “viññāṇaṁ aniccan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “viññāṇaṁ aniccan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Āmantā. “Idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

“Rūpaṁ anattā”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “rūpaṁ anattā”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Āmantā. “Idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… vedanā … saññā … saṅkhārā … “viññāṇaṁ anattā”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “viññāṇaṁ anattā”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Āmantā. “Idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

“Idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Āmantā. “I”ti ca “dan”ti ca “du”ti ca “khan”ti ca ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Idaṁ dukkhantikathā niṭṭhitā.

English Translation

Pāli Text

Points of Controversy
Points of Controversy
11.4 Of the Utterance, “This is Pain and Sorrow!”

Controverted Point: That from utterance of the word, “This is Ill!” insight into the nature of Ill is set working.

Controverted PointTheravādin:But you deny that a similar result ensues on the utterance of the other three Truths: This is the Cause, this the Cessation, this the Path leading to the Cessation of Ill. Why is this?Why deny for these what you affirm for the first Truth?Or why deny, as you do, that insight into the impermanence of each of the five aggregates (body-mind) follows from statement of the fact?Or, once more,that insight into the soullessness of each aggregate follows from a statement of the fact?On what grounds can you defend the sequence in one case only out of the three sets of five propositions?Now do you mean to tell me that insight issues from every syllable of this formula: This–is–pain–and–sor–row?Andhaka:Nay, that cannot truly be said … .Andhaka:Shwe Zan AungThis SuttaCentral edition was prepared byManfred WierichandVen. Vimalaand proofread byJosephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:Manfred WierichVen. VimalaJosephine TobinAbbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.

Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.This electronic version is published under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 3.0 licence (CC BY-NC 3.0) as found here:http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/All copyright is owned by the Pali Text Society. See also the statement under http://www.palitext.com/ → Publications → Copyright Announcement. For non-commercial use only.

Kathāvatthu
Mahāpaṇṇāsaka
Ekādasamavagga

Idaṁdukkhantikathā

“Idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Āmantā. “Ayaṁ dukkhasamudayo”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “ayaṁ dukkhasamudayo”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… “idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Āmantā. “Ayaṁ dukkhanirodho”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “ayaṁ dukkhanirodho”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… “idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Āmantā. “Ayaṁ maggo”ti vācaṁ bhāsato “ayaṁ maggo”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

“Ayaṁ samudayo”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “ayaṁ samudayo”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Āmantā. “Idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… “ayaṁ nirodho”ti … “ayaṁ maggo”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “ayaṁ maggo”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Āmantā. “Idaṁ dukkhan”ti vācaṁ bhāsato na ca “idaṁ dukkhan”ti ñāṇaṁ pavattatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Idaṁ dukkhantikathā niṭṭhitā.

Points of ControversyKathāvatthu
Points of ControversyMahāpaṇṇāsaka
11.4 Of the Utterance, “This is Pain and Sorrow!”Ekādasamavagga

Controverted Point: That from utterance of the word, “This is Ill!” insight into the nature of Ill is set working.Idaṁdukkhantikathā

Idaṁ dukkhantikathā niṭṭhitā.