Controverted PointNatthi lokiyaṁ saddhindriyanti? Theravādin:Do you imply that there can be no faith, or effort, or mindfulness, or concentration, or understanding in worldly concerns? You deny.On the other hand, you maintain that there is faith, etc., in such a connection, but that none of them avail for moral control.Āmantā. You admit that both mind and mind as a controlling power are valid in worldly matters. And you admit a similar validity in both joy and joy as a controlling power, in both psychic life and psychic life as a controlling power.Natthi lokiyā saddhāti? Why then exempt those five?Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Again, you admit that there is both a spiritual faith and a controlling power of that faith—why not both a worldly faith and a worldly controlling power of faith? And so for the rest.Why accept in the one case, deny in the other?natthi lokiyaṁ vīriyindriyaṁ …pe… Moreover, was it not said by the Exalted One:satindriyaṁ …pe… “And I,bhikkhus, with the eyes of a Buddha surveying the world, saw beings living whose vision was dim with dust, in some but slightly, greatly in others, beings whose faculties were here keen, there blunt, of good disposition … apt to learn … some among them discerning the danger and defect ofrebirth inother worlds”?samādhindriyaṁ …pe… rebirth inpaññindriyanti? Surely then the five moral controlling powers are valid in worldly matters.Āmantā. Shwe Zan AungNatthi lokiyā paññāti? This SuttaCentral edition was prepared byManfred WierichandVen. Vimalaand proofread byJosephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Manfred WierichAtthi lokiyā saddhāti? Ven. VimalaĀmantā. Josephine TobinAtthi lokiyaṁ saddhindriyanti? Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.atthi lokiyaṁ vīriyaṁ …pe… Cross-references were linked.sati …pe… Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.samādhi …pe… Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.paññāti? The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Āmantā. This electronic version is published under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 3.0 licence (CC BY-NC 3.0) as found here:http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/Atthi lokiyaṁ paññindriyanti? All copyright is owned by the Pali Text Society. See also the statement under http://www.palitext.com/ → Publications → Copyright Announcement. For non-commercial use only.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Atthi lokiyo mano, atthi lokiyaṁ manindriyanti? Āmantā. Atthi lokiyā saddhā, atthi lokiyaṁ saddhindriyanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… atthi lokiyo mano, atthi lokiyaṁ manindriyanti? Āmantā. Atthi lokiyā paññā, atthi lokiyaṁ paññindriyanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Atthi lokiyaṁ somanassaṁ, atthi lokiyaṁ somanassindriyaṁ …pe… atthi lokiyaṁ jīvitaṁ, atthi lokiyaṁ jīvitindriyanti? Āmantā. Atthi lokiyā saddhā, atthi lokiyaṁ saddhindriyanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… atthi lokiyaṁ jīvitaṁ, atthi lokiyaṁ jīvitindriyanti? Āmantā. Atthi lokiyā paññā, atthi lokiyaṁ paññindriyanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Atthi lokiyā saddhā, natthi lokiyaṁ saddhindriyanti? Āmantā. Atthi lokiyo mano, natthi lokiyaṁ manindriyanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… atthi lokiyā paññā, natthi lokiyaṁ paññindriyanti? Āmantā. Atthi lokiyo mano, natthi lokiyaṁ manindriyanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Atthi lokiyā saddhā, natthi lokiyaṁ saddhindriyanti? Āmantā. Atthi lokiyaṁ somanassaṁ, natthi lokiyaṁ somanassindriyanti … atthi lokiyaṁ jīvitaṁ, natthi lokiyaṁ jīvitindriyanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… atthi lokiyā paññā, natthi lokiyaṁ paññindriyanti? Āmantā. Atthi lokiyo mano, natthi lokiyaṁ manindriyanti …pe… atthi lokiyaṁ jīvitaṁ, natthi lokiyaṁ jīvitindriyanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Atthi lokuttarā saddhā, atthi lokuttaraṁ saddhindriyanti? Āmantā. Atthi lokiyā saddhā, atthi lokiyaṁ saddhindriyanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… atthi lokuttaraṁ vīriyaṁ …pe… atthi lokuttarā paññā, atthi lokuttaraṁ paññindriyanti? Āmantā. Atthi lokiyā paññā, atthi lokiyaṁ paññindriyanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Atthi lokiyā saddhā, natthi lokiyaṁ saddhindriyanti? Āmantā. Atthi lokuttarā saddhā, natthi lokuttaraṁ saddhindriyanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… atthi lokiyaṁ vīriyaṁ …pe… atthi lokiyā paññā, natthi lokiyaṁ paññindriyanti? Āmantā. Atthi lokuttarā paññā, natthi lokuttaraṁ paññindriyanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Natthi lokiyāni pañcindriyānīti? Āmantā. Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—“addasaṁ kho ahaṁ, bhikkhave, buddhacakkhunā lokaṁ volokento satte apparajakkhe mahārajakkhe, tikkhindriye mudindriye, svākāre, suviññāpaye, appekacce paralokavajjabhayadassāvino viharante”ti. Attheva suttantoti? Āmantā. Tena hi atthi lokiyāni pañcindriyānīti.

Indriyakathā niṭṭhitā.
Ekūnavīsatimo vaggo.

Tassuddānaṁ

Atīte kilese jahati anāgate kilese jahati paccuppanne kilese jahati, suññatā saṅkhārakkhandhapariyāpannā, sāmaññaphalaṁ asaṅkhataṁ, patti asaṅkhatā, sabbadhammānaṁ tathatā asaṅkhatā, nibbānadhātu kusalā, atthi puthujjanassa accantaniyāmatā, natthi lokiyāni pañcindriyānīti.