Controverted PointJhānā jhānaṁ saṅkamatīti? immediately.Āmantā. Theravādin:Does this imply that one can pass over from First to Third, from Second to FourthJhāna? You denysetting an arbitrary limit… .Paṭhamā jhānā tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamatīti? setting an arbitrary limitNa hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Or take only a passing over from FirstJhānaattainment to that of Second—which you affirm to be possible—you are implying that the mental process—adverting, reflecting, co-ordinating, attending, willing, wishing, aiming—called up for FirstJhānais the same as that required for SecondJhāna. But you dissent. Do you mean that nopreliminarymental process of adverting, etc., is required for SecondJhāna? On the contrary, you agree that SecondJhānaarises after a certain mental process—adverting, etc. Therefore one doesnotpass over directly from FirstJhānato the next.jhānā jhānaṁ saṅkamatīti? preliminaryĀmantā. Again, take the objects and characteristics of FirstJhāna.The First Stage, you admit, may come to pass while one is considering the harmfulness of sense-desires; moreover, it is accompanied by application and sustentation of thought. But neither that object nor these characteristics, you must admit, belong to the Second Stage. Yet your proposition really commits you to asserting identity between First and SecondJhāna.Dutiyā jhānā catutthaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamatīti? Again, take the objects and characteristics of FirstJhāna.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

The same argument applies to transition from Second to ThirdJhāna.Again, take the specific objects and characteristics of the Second Stage:the Second Stage, you admit, may come to pass while one is considering the harmfulness of application and sustentation of thought; moreover, it is accompanied by zest. But neither that object nor these characteristics, you must admit, belong to the Third Stage. Yet your proposition really commits you to an assertion of identity between Second and ThirdJhāna.Paṭhamā jhānā dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamatīti? Again, take the specific objects and characteristics of the Second Stage:Āmantā. The same argument applies to transition from Third to FourthJhāna.Yā paṭhamassa jhānassa uppādāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhi, sāva dutiyassa jhānassa uppādāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti? Again, take the specific objects and characteristics of the Third Stage:the Third Stage, you admit, may come to pass while one is considering the harmfulness of zest; moreover, it is accompanied by happiness. But neither that object nor these characteristics, you must admit, belong to the Fourth Stage. Yet your proposition really commits you to an assertion of identity between Third and FourthJhāna.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Again, take the specific objects and characteristics of the Third Stage:Paṭhamā jhānā dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamati, na vattabbaṁ—Mahiṁsāsaka, Andhaka:But was it not said by the Exalted One:“yā paṭhamassa jhānassa uppādāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhi, sāva dutiyassa jhānassa uppādāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhī”ti? Mahiṁsāsaka, Andhaka:Āmantā. “Here, bkikkhus, when abhikkhu, aloof from sense-desires, etc.… attains to and abides in First … FourthJhāna”?Dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ anāvaṭṭentassa uppajjati …pe… appaṇidahantassa uppajjatīti? According to thatformulaone does pass over immediately fromJhānatoJhāna.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… formulananu dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ āvaṭṭentassa uppajjati …pe… paṇidahantassa uppajjatīti? Shwe Zan AungĀmantā. This SuttaCentral edition was prepared byManfred WierichandVen. Vimalaand proofread byJosephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:Hañci dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ āvaṭṭentassa uppajjati …pe… paṇidahantassa uppajjati, no ca vata re vattabbe—Manfred Wierich“paṭhamā jhānā dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamatī”ti …pe….

Ven. VimalaPaṭhamā jhānā dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamatīti? Josephine TobinĀmantā. Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Paṭhamaṁ jhānaṁ kāme ādīnavato manasikaroto uppajjatīti? Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Āmantā. Cross-references were linked.Dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ kāme ādīnavato manasikaroto uppajjatīti? Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.Paṭhamaṁ jhānaṁ savitakkaṁ savicāranti? The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Āmantā. This electronic version is published under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 3.0 licence (CC BY-NC 3.0) as found here:http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/Dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ savitakkaṁ savicāranti? All copyright is owned by the Pali Text Society. See also the statement under http://www.palitext.com/ → Publications → Copyright Announcement. For non-commercial use only.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… paṭhamā jhānā dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamatīti? Āmantā. Taññeva paṭhamaṁ jhānaṁ taṁ dutiyaṁ jhānanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Dutiyā jhānā tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamatīti? Āmantā. Yā dutiyassa jhānassa uppādāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhi, sāva tatiyassa jhānassa uppādāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Dutiyā jhānā tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamati, na vattabbaṁ—“yā dutiyassa jhānassa uppādāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhi, sāva tatiyassa jhānassa uppādāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhī”ti? Āmantā. Tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ anāvaṭṭentassa uppajjati …pe… appaṇidahantassa uppajjatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… nanu tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ āvaṭṭentassa uppajjati …pe… paṇidahantassa uppajjatīti? Āmantā. Hañci tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ āvaṭṭentassa uppajjati …pe… paṇidahantassa uppajjati, no ca vata re vattabbe—“dutiyā jhānā tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamatī”ti.

Dutiyā jhānā tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamatīti? Āmantā. Dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ vitakkavicāre ādīnavato manasikaroto uppajjatīti? Āmantā. Tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ vitakkavicāre ādīnavato manasikaroto uppajjatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ sappītikanti? Āmantā. Tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ sappītikanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… dutiyā jhānā tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamatīti? Āmantā. Taññeva dutiyaṁ jhānaṁ taṁ tatiyaṁ jhānanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Tatiyā jhānā catutthaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamatīti? Āmantā. Yā tatiyassa jhānassa uppādāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhi, sāva catutthassa jhānassa uppādāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Tatiyā jhānā catutthaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamati, na vattabbaṁ—“yā tatiyassa jhānassa uppādāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhi, sāva catutthassa jhānassa uppādāya āvaṭṭanā …pe… paṇidhī”ti? Āmantā. Catutthaṁ jhānaṁ anāvaṭṭentassa uppajjati …pe… appaṇidahantassa uppajjatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… nanu catutthaṁ jhānaṁ āvaṭṭentassa uppajjati …pe… paṇidahantassa uppajjatīti? Āmantā. Hañci catutthaṁ jhānaṁ āvaṭṭentassa uppajjati …pe… paṇidahantassa uppajjati, no ca vata re vattabbe—“tatiyā jhānā catutthaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamatī”ti.

Tatiyā jhānā catutthaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamatīti? Āmantā. Tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ pītiṁ ādīnavato manasikaroto uppajjatīti? Āmantā. Catutthaṁ jhānaṁ pītiṁ ādīnavato manasikaroto uppajjatīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ sukhasahagatanti? Āmantā. Catutthaṁ jhānaṁ sukhasahagatanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… tatiyā jhānā catutthaṁ jhānaṁ saṅkamatīti? Āmantā. Taññeva tatiyaṁ jhānaṁ taṁ catutthaṁ jhānanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Na vattabbaṁ—“jhānā jhānaṁ saṅkamatī”ti? Āmantā. Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—“idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu vivicceva kāmehi …pe… catutthaṁ jhānaṁ upasampajja viharatī”ti. Attheva suttantoti? Āmantā. Tena hi jhānā jhānaṁ saṅkamatīti.

Jhānasaṅkantikathā niṭṭhitā.