Controverted Point: That all conditioned things are absolutely cinderheaps.Sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷāti? Controverted PointĀmantā. Theravādin:You affirm this; but is there not such a thing as pleasurable feeling, bodily pleasure, mental pleasure, celestial happiness, human happiness, the pleasures of gain, of being honoured, of riding-and-driving, of resting, the pleasures of ruling, of administrating, of domestic-and-secular life, of the religious life, pleasures involved in the intoxicants and pleasures that are not, the happinessofNibbāna, both while stuff of life remains and when none remains, worldly and spiritual pleasures, happiness withzest and without zest,Jhāna-happiness, the bliss of liberty, pleasures of sense-desire, and the happiness of renunciation, the bliss of solitude, of peace, of enlightenment? Of course. How then can you maintain your general affirmation?Nanu atthi sukhā vedanā, kāyikaṁ sukhaṁ, cetasikaṁ sukhaṁ, dibbaṁ sukhaṁ, mānusakaṁ sukhaṁ, lābhasukhaṁ, sakkārasukhaṁ, yānasukhaṁ, sayanasukhaṁ, issariyasukhaṁ, ādhipaccasukhaṁ, gihisukhaṁ, sāmaññasukhaṁ, sāsavaṁ sukhaṁ, anāsavaṁ sukhaṁ, upadhisukhaṁ, nirūpadhisukhaṁ, sāmisaṁ sukhaṁ, nirāmisaṁ sukhaṁ, sappītikaṁ sukhaṁ, nippītikaṁ sukhaṁ, jhānasukhaṁ, vimuttisukhaṁ, kāmasukhaṁ, nekkhammasukhaṁ, vivekasukhaṁ, upasamasukhaṁ, sambodhasukhanti? ofNibbānaĀmantā. Gokulika:My proposition then is wrong? But was it not said by the Exalted One:Hañci atthi sukhā vedanā …pe… Gokulika:sambodhasukhaṁ, no ca vata re vattabbe—“All is on fire, Obhikkhus! How is everything on fire? The eye is on fire; visible objects, visual consciousness, visual contact and the pleasure, the pain, the neutral feeling therefrom—all is on fire. On fire wherewithal? I tell you, on fire with the fires of passion, hate, and ignorance; with the fires of birth, decay, and death; with the fires of sorrow, lamentation, ill, grief, and despair. All the field of sense, all the field of mind, all the feeling therefrom is on fire with those fires”?“sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷā”ti.

Surely then all conditioned things are mere cinderheaps absolutely.Sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷāti? Theravādin:But was it not also said by the Exalted One:Āmantā. “There are these five pleasures of sense,bhikkhus—namely, visible objects seen through the eye as desirable, pleasing, delightful, lovely, adapted to sense-desire, seductive; audible objects, odorous, sapid, tangible objects, desirable, pleasing, delightful, lovely, adapted to sense-desire, seductive …”?Sabbe saṅkhārā dukkhā vedanā kāyikaṁ dukkhaṁ cetasikaṁ dukkhaṁ sokaparidevadukkhadomanassaupāyāsāti? Gokulika:But was it not also said by the Exalted One:Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

Gokulika:Na vattabbaṁ—“A gain is yours, Obhikkhus! well have ye won, for ye have discerned the hour for living the religious life. Hells have I seen,bhikkhus, belonging to the six fields of contact. Hereof whatsoever object is seen by the eye is undesired only, not desired; whatsoever object is sensed by ear, smell, taste, touch, mind, is undesired only, not desired; is unpleasant only, not pleasant; is unlovely only, not lovely”?“sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷā”ti? Theravādin:But was it not also said by the Exalted One:Āmantā. “A gain is yours,bhikkhus! well have ye won, for ye have discerned the hour for living the religious life. Heavens have I seen,bhikkhus, belonging to the six fields of contact. Hereof whatsoever object is seen by the eye, or otherwise sensed, is desired only, not undesired; is pleasing only, not unpleasing; is lovely only, not unlovely”?Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—Gokulika:But was it not said by the Exalted One:“sabbaṁ, bhikkhave, ādittaṁ. Gokulika:Kiñca, bhikkhave, sabbaṁ ādittaṁ? “The impermanent involves Ill; all conditioned things are impermanent”?Cakkhuṁ, bhikkhave, ādittaṁ, rūpā ādittā, cakkhuviññāṇaṁ ādittaṁ, cakkhusamphasso āditto; Theravādin:But take giving: does that bring forth fruit that is undesired, unpleasant, disagreeable, adulterated? Does it bear, and result in, sorrow? Or take virtue, the keeping of feastdays, religious training, and religious life: do they bring forth such fruit, etc.? Do they not rather have the opposite result? How then can you affirm your general proposition?yamidaṁ cakkhusamphassapaccayā uppajjati vedayitaṁ sukhaṁ vā dukkhaṁ vā adukkhamasukhaṁ vā, tampi ādittaṁ. Finally, was it not said by the Exalted One:Kena ādittaṁ? “Happy his solitude who, glad at heart,Hath learnt the Norm and doth the vision see!Happy is that benignity towardsThe world which on no creature worketh harm.Happy the freedom from all lust, th' ascentPast and beyond the needs of sense-desires.He who doth crush the great “I am”-conceit:This, even this, is happiness supreme.This happiness by happiness is won,Unending happiness is this alone.The Threefold Wisdom hath he made his own.This, even this, is happiness supreme”?‘Rāgagginā dosagginā mohagginā ādittaṁ, jātiyā jarāya maraṇena sokehi paridevehi dukkhehi domanassehi upāyāsehi ādittan’ti vadāmi. “Happy his solitude who, glad at heart,Hath learnt the Norm and doth the vision see!Happy is that benignity towardsThe world which on no creature worketh harm.Happy the freedom from all lust, th' ascentPast and beyond the needs of sense-desires.He who doth crush the great “I am”-conceit:This, even this, is happiness supreme.This happiness by happiness is won,Unending happiness is this alone.The Threefold Wisdom hath he made his own.This, even this, is happiness supreme”?Sotaṁ ādittaṁ, saddā ādittā …pe… You admit the Suttanta says this? How then can you maintain your proposition?ghānaṁ ādittaṁ, gandhā ādittā …pe… Shwe Zan Aungjivhā ādittā, rasā ādittā …pe… This SuttaCentral edition was prepared byManfred WierichandVen. Vimalaand proofread byJosephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:kāyo āditto, phoṭṭhabbā ādittā …pe… Manfred Wierichmano āditto, dhammā ādittā, manoviññāṇaṁ ādittaṁ, manosamphasso āditto; Ven. Vimalayamidaṁ manosamphassapaccayā uppajjati vedayitaṁ sukhaṁ vā dukkhaṁ vā adukkhamasukhaṁ vā, tampi ādittaṁ. Josephine TobinKena ādittaṁ? Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.‘Rāgagginā dosagginā mohagginā ādittaṁ, jātiyā jarāya maraṇena sokehi paridevehi dukkhehi domanassehi upāyāsehi ādittan’ti vadāmī”ti. Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Attheva suttantoti? Cross-references were linked.Āmantā. Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Tena hi vattabbaṁ—Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.“sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷā”ti.

The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷāti? This electronic version is published under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 3.0 licence (CC BY-NC 3.0) as found here:http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/Āmantā. All copyright is owned by the Pali Text Society. See also the statement under http://www.palitext.com/ → Publications → Copyright Announcement. For non-commercial use only.Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—“pañcime, bhikkhave, kāmaguṇā. Katame pañca? Cakkhuviññeyyā rūpā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā piyarūpā kāmūpasaṁhitā rajanīyā, sotaviññeyyā saddā …pe… ghānaviññeyyā gandhā … jivhāviññeyyā rasā … kāyaviññeyyā phoṭṭhabbā iṭṭhā kantā manāpā piyarūpā kāmūpasaṁhitā rajanīyā. Ime kho, bhikkhave, pañca kāmaguṇā”ti. Attheva suttantoti? Āmantā. Tena hi na vattabbaṁ—“sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷā”ti.

Na vattabbaṁ—“sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷā”ti? Āmantā. Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—“lābhā vo, bhikkhave, suladdhaṁ vo, bhikkhave, khaṇo vo paṭiladdho brahmacariyavāsāya. Diṭṭhā mayā, bhikkhave, cha phassāyatanikā nāma nirayā. Tattha yaṁ kiñci cakkhunā rūpaṁ passati, aniṭṭharūpaññeva passati no iṭṭharūpaṁ, akantarūpaññeva passati no kantarūpaṁ, amanāparūpaññeva passati no manāparūpaṁ. Yaṁ kiñci sotena saddaṁ suṇāti …pe… ghānena gandhaṁ ghāyati … jivhāya rasaṁ sāyati … kāyena phoṭṭhabbaṁ phusati … manasā dhammaṁ vijānāti, aniṭṭharūpaññeva vijānāti no iṭṭharūpaṁ, akantarūpaññeva vijānāti no kantarūpaṁ, amanāparūpaññeva vijānāti no manāparūpan”ti. Attheva suttantoti? Āmantā. Tena hi vattabbaṁ—“sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷā”ti.

Sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷāti? Āmantā. Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—“lābhā vo, bhikkhave, suladdhaṁ vo, bhikkhave, khaṇo vo paṭiladdho brahmacariyavāsāya. Diṭṭhā mayā, bhikkhave, cha phassāyatanikā nāma saggā. Tattha yaṁ kiñci cakkhunā rūpaṁ passati, iṭṭharūpaññeva passati no aniṭṭharūpaṁ, kantarūpaññeva passati no akantarūpaṁ, manāparūpaññeva passati no amanāparūpaṁ. Yaṁ kiñci sotena saddaṁ suṇāti …pe… ghānena gandhaṁ ghāyati … jivhāya rasaṁ sāyati … kāyena phoṭṭhabbaṁ phusati … manasā dhammaṁ vijānāti, iṭṭharūpaññeva vijānāti no aniṭṭharūpaṁ, kantarūpaññeva vijānāti no akantarūpaṁ, manāparūpaññeva vijānāti no amanāparūpan”ti. Attheva suttantoti? Āmantā. Tena hi na vattabbaṁ—“sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷā”ti.

Na vattabbaṁ—“sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷā”ti? Āmantā. Nanu “yadaniccaṁ taṁ dukkhaṁ”, vuttaṁ bhagavatā—“sabbe saṅkhārā aniccā”ti? Āmantā. Hañci “yadaniccaṁ taṁ dukkhaṁ”, vuttaṁ bhagavatā—“sabbe saṅkhārā aniccā”, tena vata re vattabbe—“sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷā”ti.

Sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷāti? Āmantā. Dānaṁ aniṭṭhaphalaṁ akantaphalaṁ amanuññaphalaṁ secanakaphalaṁ dukkhudrayaṁ dukkhavipākanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

Sīlaṁ …pe… uposatho …pe… bhāvanā …pe… brahmacariyaṁ aniṭṭhaphalaṁ akantaphalaṁ amanuññaphalaṁ secanakaphalaṁ dukkhudrayaṁ dukkhavipākanti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe.

Nanu dānaṁ iṭṭhaphalaṁ kantaphalaṁ manuññaphalaṁ asecanakaphalaṁ sukhudrayaṁ sukhavipākanti? Āmantā. Hañci dānaṁ iṭṭhaphalaṁ kantaphalaṁ manuññaphalaṁ asecanakaphalaṁ sukhudrayaṁ sukhavipākaṁ, no ca vata re vattabbe—“sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷā”ti.

Nanu sīlaṁ … uposatho … bhāvanā … brahmacariyaṁ iṭṭhaphalaṁ kantaphalaṁ manuññaphalaṁ asecanakaphalaṁ sukhudrayaṁ sukhavipākanti? Āmantā. Hañci brahmacariyaṁ iṭṭhaphalaṁ kantaphalaṁ manuññaphalaṁ asecanakaphalaṁ sukhudrayaṁ sukhavipākanti, no ca vata re vattabbe—“sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷā”ti.

Sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷāti? Āmantā. Nanu vuttaṁ bhagavatā—

“Sukho viveko tuṭṭhassa, sutadhammassa passato; Abyāpajjaṁ sukhaṁ loke, pāṇabhūtesu saṁyamo.

Sukhā virāgatā loke, kāmānaṁ samatikkamo; Asmimānassa yo vinayo, etaṁ ve paramaṁ sukhaṁ.

Taṁ sukhena sukhaṁ pattaṁ, accantasukhameva taṁ; Tisso vijjā anuppattā, etaṁ ve paramaṁ sukhan”ti.

Attheva suttantoti? Āmantā. Tena hi na vattabbaṁ—“sabbe saṅkhārā anodhiṁ katvā kukkuḷā”ti.

Kukkuḷakathā niṭṭhitā.