Controverted PointSaññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpanno kālaṁ kareyyāti? Theravādin:You must, then, admit that, while in that state, he has all thementalsymptoms betokening death—to wit, in mental contact, feeling, perception, volition, consciousness. But you agree that all moribund mental symptoms are absent. Hence your proposition falls through.Āmantā. mentalAtthi saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpannassa māraṇantiyo phasso, māraṇantiyā vedanā, māraṇantiyā saññā, māraṇantiyā cetanā, māraṇantiyaṁ cittanti? You will further agree with this: not only that for one in a state of trance is all mental life in abeyance, but also that death is accompanied by contactual, emotional, volitional, and cognitive symptoms.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Moreover, can poison, weapons, or fire affect the body of one in trance? You deny. You assert, on the contrary, that those causes of death cannot affect him. Then, can you maintain your proposition?natthi saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpannassa māraṇantiyo phasso, māraṇantiyā vedanā, māraṇantiyā saññā, māraṇantiyā cetanā, māraṇantiyaṁ cittanti? Or do you now maintain that poison, weapons, or fire can affect his body? Then, is his attainment not genuine? … .Āmantā. Rājagirika:But in opposing my proposition you imply that there must be some principle of certainty (or uniformity) by which one is assured of not dying while in trance. If you say that such an assurance does not exist, your proposition cannot stand.Hañci natthi saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpannassa māraṇantiyo phasso, māraṇantiyā vedanā, māraṇantiyā saññā, māraṇantiyā cetanā, māraṇantiyaṁ cittaṁ, no ca vata re vattabbe—Rājagirika:“saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpanno kālaṁ kareyyā”ti.

Theravādin:But one who is enjoying visual consciousness is not dying, even though there be no uniform principle of certainty by which he is assured of being kept from death. Hence I assert as much of one who is in trance.Saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpanno kālaṁ kareyyāti? Shwe Zan AungĀmantā. This SuttaCentral edition was prepared byManfred WierichandVen. Vimalaand proofread byJosephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:Atthi saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpannassa phasso vedanā saññā cetanā cittanti? Manfred WierichNa hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Ven. Vimalanatthi saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpannassa phasso vedanā saññā cetanā cittanti? Josephine TobinĀmantā. Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Aphassakassa kālaṅkiriyā, avedanakassa kālaṅkiriyā …pe… acittakassa kālaṅkiriyāti? Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… Cross-references were linked.nanu saphassakassa kālaṅkiriyā …pe… sacittakassa kālaṅkiriyāti? Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Āmantā. Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.Hañci saphassakassa kālaṅkiriyā …pe… sacittakassa kālaṅkiriyā, no ca vata re vattabbe—The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.“saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpanno kālaṁ kareyyā”ti.

This electronic version is published under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 3.0 licence (CC BY-NC 3.0) as found here:http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/Saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpanno kālaṁ kareyyāti? All copyright is owned by the Pali Text Society. See also the statement under http://www.palitext.com/ → Publications → Copyright Announcement. For non-commercial use only.Āmantā. Saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpannassa kāye visaṁ kameyya, satthaṁ kameyya, aggi kameyyāti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpannassa kāye visaṁ na kameyya, satthaṁ na kameyya, aggi na kameyyāti? Āmantā. Hañci saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpannassa kāye visaṁ na kameyya, satthaṁ na kameyya, aggi na kameyya, no ca vata re vattabbe—“saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpanno kālaṁ kareyyā”ti.

Saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpanno kālaṁ kareyyāti? Āmantā. Saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpannassa kāye visaṁ kameyya, satthaṁ kameyya, aggi kameyyāti? Āmantā. Na nirodhaṁ samāpannoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpanno na kālaṁ kareyyāti? Āmantā. Atthi so niyāmo yena niyāmena niyato saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpanno na kālaṁ kareyyāti? Natthi. Hañci natthi so niyāmo yena niyāmena niyato saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpanno na kālaṁ kareyya, no ca vata re vattabbe—“saññāvedayitanirodhaṁ samāpanno na kālaṁ kareyyā”ti.

Cakkhuviññāṇasamaṅgī na kālaṁ kareyyāti? Āmantā. Atthi so niyāmo yena niyāmena niyato cakkhuviññāṇasamaṅgī na kālaṁ kareyyāti? Natthi. Hañci natthi so niyāmo yena niyāmena niyato cakkhuviññāṇasamaṅgī na kālaṁ kareyya, no ca vata re vattabbe—“cakkhuviññāṇasamaṅgī na kālaṁ kareyyā”ti.

Tatiyasaññāvedayitakathā niṭṭhitā.