Controverted PointBuddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokuttaroti? Theravādin:Does this not involve the further statement that his speech impinged only on the spiritual, but not on the mundane ear; and that the spiritual, not the mundane, intelligence responded to it, and thus that disciples alone were aware of it, not average persons? You do not admit this … Nay, you know that the Exalted Buddha's speech struck on the mundane hearing of men, was responded to by mundane intelligence, and that average persons were aware of it.Āmantā. Theterms he used, are they supramundane—Path, Fruit,Nibbāna, Path and Fruit of Stream-Winning, Once-Returning, Never-Returning, Arahantship, earnestapplication in mindfulness, supreme endeavour, steps to magic potency, controlling power or faculty, force, factor of enlightenment?Lokuttare sote paṭihaññati no lokiye, lokuttarena viññāṇena paṭivijānanti no lokiyena, sāvakā paṭivijānanti no puthujjanāti? Theterms he used, are they supramundane—Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Werethere any who heard his everyday speech? But you deny that a supramundane object is known by way of the ear, impinges on the ear, comes into the avenue of hearing. Therefore you cannot affirm that men “heard” his everyday speech.Nanu buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokiye sote paṭihaññatīti? Werethere any who were ravished by his everyday speech?We know that there were such.But is a supramundane thing an occasion of sensuous desire, ravishing, entrancing, intoxicating, captivating, enervating? Is it not rather the opposite? … .Āmantā. We know that there were such.Hañci buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokiye sote paṭihaññati, no ca vata re vattabbe—Further,there were some who were offended by his habitual speech. But is a supramundane thing an occasion of hate, of anger, of resentment? Is it not rather the opposite? … .“buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokuttaro”ti.

Further,there were some who were baffled by his habitual speech. But is a supramundane thing an occasion of obfuscation, causing want of insight and blindness, extinguishing understanding, provoking vexation, not conducing toNibbāna? Is it not rather the opposite? … .Nanu buddhassa bhagavato vohāraṁ lokiyena viññāṇena paṭivijānantīti? Nowthose who heard the Exalted Buddha's habitual speech, did they all develop the paths? Yes, you say? But foolish average people heard him—matricides, too, and parricides, slayers of Arahants, shedders of holy blood, schismatics—therefore you are affirming that these developed the paths!… .Āmantā. Andhaka:But you may with one golden wand point out both a heap of paddy and a heap of gold. So the Exalted One, with his supramundane habitual speech, habitually spoke about both mundane and supramundane doctrine.Hañci buddhassa bhagavato vohāraṁ lokiyena viññāṇena paṭivijānanti, no ca vata re vattabbe—Andhaka:“buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokuttaro”ti.

Theravādin:It is no less possible to point out both paddy andgold with a wand of castor-oil wood. So the Exalted One,Nanu buddhassa bhagavato vohāraṁ puthujjanā paṭivijānantīti? with his mundane habitual speech, habitually spoke about both mundane and supramundane matter.Āmantā. Nowsome of you say that the habitual speech of the Exalted One, the Buddha, was mundane when speaking to one so conversing, supramundane when speaking to one so conversing. But this implies that his words impinged on mundane hearing when he spoke of worldly things, and on the supramundane hearing when he spoke of supramundane things; also that his hearers understood with their mundane intelligence in the former case, and with their supramundane intelligence in the latter; also that average persons understood in the former case, disciples in the latter. To which you do not agree.Hañci buddhassa bhagavato vohāraṁ puthujjanā paṭivijānanti, no ca vata re vattabbe—ItAndhaka:is wrong then, according to you, to say that the Exalted Buddha's customary speech was mundane when he spoke of mundane matters, supramundane when he spoke of supramundane matters. But did he not use both kinds of speech? You assent. Then surely what you maintain is untenable.“buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokuttaro”ti.

Andhaka:Buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokuttaroti? Again,your proposition involves this further admission: that the speech of anyone becomes that of which he is speaking—that if you speak of Path, your word becomes Path; similarly of what is not Path, of Fruit, ofNibbāna, of the Conditioned, of matter, of mind and their opposites.Āmantā. Shwe Zan AungMaggo phalaṁ nibbānaṁ, sotāpattimaggo sotāpattiphalaṁ, sakadāgāmimaggo sakadāgāmiphalaṁ, anāgāmimaggo anāgāmiphalaṁ, arahattamaggo arahattaphalaṁ, satipaṭṭhānaṁ sammappadhānaṁ iddhipādo indriyaṁ balaṁ bojjhaṅgoti? This SuttaCentral edition was prepared byManfred WierichandVen. Vimalaand proofread byJosephine Tobin. Some changes were introduced:Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Manfred WierichBuddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokuttaroti? Ven. VimalaĀmantā. Josephine TobinAtthi keci buddhassa bhagavato vohāraṁ suṇantīti? Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Cross-references were linked.Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Āmantā. Abbreviations, i.e., those of cited works and the participants in the controversies, were expanded.Lokuttaro dhammo sotaviññeyyo, sotasmiṁ paṭihaññati, sotassa āpāthaṁ āgacchatīti? Cross-references were linked.Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Some typographic changes were introduced, among others, i.e.: the phonetic symbol “ŋ” was changed to the Pāli diacritical letter “ṃ”, “ô” to “o”, single quotes to double quotes, and “:—” to “:”.Nanu lokuttaro dhammo na sotaviññeyyo, na sotasmiṁ paṭihaññati, na sotassa āpāthaṁ āgacchatīti? Letter-spacing with fixed spaces was replaced with bold font.Āmantā. The corrigenda were merged into the text. Some could not be resolved, though.Hañci lokuttaro dhammo na sotaviññeyyo, na sotasmiṁ paṭihaññati, na sotassa āpāthaṁ āgacchati, no ca vata re vattabbe—This electronic version is published under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution Non-Commercial 3.0 licence (CC BY-NC 3.0) as found here:http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc/3.0/“buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokuttaro”ti.

All copyright is owned by the Pali Text Society. See also the statement under http://www.palitext.com/ → Publications → Copyright Announcement. For non-commercial use only.Buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokuttaroti? Āmantā. Atthi keci buddhassa bhagavato vohāre rajjeyyunti? Āmantā. Lokuttaro dhammo rāgaṭṭhāniyo rajanīyo kamanīyo madanīyo bandhanīyo mucchanīyoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Nanu lokuttaro dhammo na rāgaṭṭhāniyo na rajanīyo na kamanīyo na madanīyo na bandhanīyo na mucchanīyoti? Āmantā. Hañci lokuttaro dhammo na rāgaṭṭhāniyo na rajanīyo na kamanīyo na madanīyo na bandhanīyo na mucchanīyo, no ca vata re vattabbe—“buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokuttaro”ti.

Buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokuttaroti? Āmantā. Atthi keci buddhassa bhagavato vohāre dusseyyunti? Āmantā. Lokuttaro dhammo dosaṭṭhāniyo kopaṭṭhāniyo paṭighaṭṭhāniyoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Nanu lokuttaro dhammo na dosaṭṭhāniyo na kopaṭṭhāniyo na paṭighaṭṭhāniyoti? Āmantā. Hañci lokuttaro dhammo na dosaṭṭhāniyo na kopaṭṭhāniyo na paṭighaṭṭhāniyo, no ca vata re vattabbe—“buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokuttaro”ti.

Buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokuttaroti? Āmantā. Atthi keci buddhassa bhagavato vohāre muyheyyunti? Āmantā. Lokuttaro dhammo mohaṭṭhāniyo aññāṇakaraṇo acakkhukaraṇo paññānirodhiko vighātapakkhiko anibbānasaṁvattanikoti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Nanu lokuttaro dhammo na mohaṭṭhāniyo na aññāṇakaraṇo na acakkhukaraṇo paññāvuddhiko avighātapakkhiko nibbānasaṁvattanikoti? Āmantā. Hañci lokuttaro dhammo na mohaṭṭhāniyo na aññāṇakaraṇo na acakkhukaraṇo paññāvuddhiko avighātapakkhiko nibbānasaṁvattaniko, no ca vata re vattabbe—“buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokuttaro”ti.

Buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokuttaroti? Āmantā. Ye keci buddhassa bhagavato vohāraṁ suṇanti, sabbe te maggaṁ bhāventīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Ye keci buddhassa bhagavato vohāraṁ suṇanti, sabbe te maggaṁ bhāventīti? Āmantā. Bālaputhujjanā buddhassa bhagavato vohāraṁ suṇanti, bālaputhujjanā maggaṁ bhāventīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe… mātughātako maggaṁ bhāveti …pe… pitughātako … arahantaghātako … ruhiruppādako … saṅghabhedako buddhassa bhagavato vohāraṁ suṇāti, saṅghabhedako maggaṁ bhāvetīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Labbhā sovaṇṇamayāya laṭṭhiyā dhaññapuñjopi suvaṇṇapuñjopi ācikkhitunti? Āmantā. Evamevaṁ bhagavā lokuttarena vohārena lokiyampi lokuttarampi dhammaṁ voharatīti.

Labbhā elaṇḍiyāya laṭṭhiyā dhaññapuñjopi suvaṇṇapuñjopi ācikkhitunti? Āmantā. Evamevaṁ bhagavā lokiyena vohārena lokiyampi lokuttarampi dhammaṁ voharatīti.

Buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokiyaṁ voharantassa lokiyo hoti, lokuttaraṁ voharantassa lokuttaro hotīti? Āmantā. Lokiyaṁ voharantassa lokiye sote paṭihaññati, lokuttaraṁ voharantassa lokuttare sote paṭihaññati; lokiyaṁ voharantassa lokiyena viññāṇena paṭivijānanti, lokuttaraṁ voharantassa lokuttarena viññāṇena paṭivijānanti; lokiyaṁ voharantassa puthujjanā paṭivijānanti, lokuttaraṁ voharantassa sāvakā paṭivijānantīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Na vattabbaṁ—“buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokiyaṁ voharantassa lokiyo hoti, lokuttaraṁ voharantassa lokuttaro hotī”ti? Āmantā. Nanu bhagavā lokiyampi lokuttarampi dhammaṁ voharatīti? Āmantā. Hañci bhagavā lokiyampi lokuttarampi dhammaṁ voharati, tena vata re vattabbe—“buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokiyaṁ voharantassa lokiyo hoti, lokuttaraṁ voharantassa lokuttaro hotī”ti.

Buddhassa bhagavato vohāro lokiyaṁ voharantassa lokiyo hoti, lokuttaraṁ voharantassa lokuttaro hotīti? Āmantā. Maggaṁ voharantassa maggo hoti, amaggaṁ voharantassa amaggo hoti, phalaṁ voharantassa phalaṁ hoti, aphalaṁ voharantassa aphalaṁ hoti, nibbānaṁ voharantassa nibbānaṁ hoti, anibbānaṁ voharantassa anibbānaṁ hoti, saṅkhataṁ voharantassa saṅkhataṁ hoti, asaṅkhataṁ voharantassa asaṅkhataṁ hoti, rūpaṁ voharantassa rūpaṁ hoti, arūpaṁ voharantassa arūpaṁ hoti, vedanaṁ voharantassa vedanā hoti, avedanaṁ voharantassa avedanā hoti, saññaṁ voharantassa saññā hoti, asaññaṁ voharantassa asaññā hoti, saṅkhāre voharantassa saṅkhārā honti, asaṅkhāre voharantassa asaṅkhārā honti, viññāṇaṁ voharantassa viññāṇaṁ hoti, aviññāṇaṁ voharantassa aviññāṇaṁ hotīti? Na hevaṁ vattabbe …pe….

Vohārakathā niṭṭhitā.